Bear defense and plinking rifle?

[Hellbore]

Is there a rifle that would work well for defense against bears, but also uses inexpensive ammo and is useful for plinking or deer hunting?

It would also need to be a short rifle and not too heavy, for carrying when backpacking and such.

I don't know much about rifles but a lever-action would be nice too, I would think.

Any ideas? I have heard of things like a 45-70 but isn't that ammo really expensive, and can you use it for deer hunting or other things?

 

[cookekdjr]

CZ-527 carbine in 7.62x39. Cheap ammo and the power of a 30-30.
Leveraction guns in .357 and .44 mag.
Enjoy.
-David

 

[Hellbore]

I saw a .44 magnum lever action rifle in CDNN. How is the performance of .44 magnum in a rifle? Then I could use the same ammo as my revolver... Isn't 30-30 more powerful?

What I'd really be interested in would be an affordable, lightweight, short-barreled 30-06 lever action gun with a synthetic stock... That would be killer, a lightweight, short, 30-06 lever action... Anything like that out there?

 

[Hellbore]

Oh yeah another thing, it seems to me like a bullpup would make a GREAT bush gun.

Why doesn't anyone make a synthetic-stocked bullpup in 30-06 or .308 or another viable hunting caliber?

It's like there are no bullpup rifles out there... It's such a smart design for a compact bush gun, if you ask me.

 

[MrAcheson]

Where would you be hiking and what kind of bear are we talking about? Black is substantially smaller than brown.

In general your requirements are mutually exclusive. Taking a bear of any size will require a rifle with serious oomph. That doesn't come cheap. .30-30, 7.62x39, or .357 will not cut it unless you can really pick your shot in advance (doubtful). You really want a true rifle round with some weight behind it. The standard bear guns are a 12 gauge loaded with slugs, a .45/70 levergun, or, as a last result, a handgun in .44 magnum to .454 casull.

 

[Bear Gulch]

Bubba up a mauser. Or get an action and build the caliber you want. But 8mm will convinvingly thump most critters.

 

[Hellbore]

I have a Redhawk in .44 magnum to carry as a backup.

So how about a short-barreled shotgun with maybe a folding stock, loaded with slugs?

Also didn't you mean to say 45-70 not 47-70? Or is there also such thing as 47-70?

And is .30-06 still too small?

 

[Tacoma]

Your generally going to want a big heavy bullet for bear. There are several lever action carbines out there that are chambered in the "big" 44/45 cals ( 45 Long Colt, 44 mag, 45-70) . Any of the above cals can be bought as reloads these days thanks to cowboy action shooting popularity. You can practice with reloads and carry the hot stuff.
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/index.php
Plenty of used ones around too.
You can also hunt up 45 ACP semi auto carbines although they are often not rated for +p. not quite the power or the range of the 44 mag but 45 ACP can be had for $16/100.

FWIW, I have a marlin camp gun in the smaller 9mm. They also make it in .45 acp. The gun is short, light , reliable and ALLOT of fun to shoot.

 

[cookekdjr]

Taking a bear of any size will require a rifle with serious oomph. That doesn't come cheap. .30-30, 7.62x39, or .357 will not cut it unless you can really pick your shot in advance (doubtful).

Hmmmmm....Regarding the 30-30 comment, you may want to check out "Black Bear Guns and Cartridges I Have Known" at:

http://www.galleryofguns.com/ShootingTimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=5448

BTW, the folks at leverguns.com estimate that more bear have bean killed by the 30-30 than any other cartridge. If you go to Marlin's website and catalog, they recommend hunting black bear with their 30-30 or .44 mag leverguns.

Regarding the 7.62x39, you may want to compare the ballistics of the 30-30 with that of the 7.62x39. There are a number of articles about this at leverguns.com.

Regarding the .357, check out Buffalo Bore's .357 loads, and compare their ballistics to that of the 30-30.

-David

 

[cookekdjr]

Hellbore,
Browning makes leverguns in 30-06 and 308.
-David

 

[buzz meeks]

I must disagree with Mr. Acheson. The 30-30 does fine on black bear. At some point you have to stop looking at ballistics charts and start studying the tremendous pile of kills that certain cartridges rack up. The 30-30 has been doing bears for 110 years or so and when used within its range, it's a solid performer.

Having said that, I would never argue that the 30-30 is ideal for grizzly defense. The 45-70 or a 375H&H approach ideal. But I assume the original poster is writing about black bear defense. In that case, good cartridges for that purpose begin at the 30-30.

Also, in my neck of the woods, 30-30 ammo goes for eight to ten bucks a box. At first blush that seems high compared to Wolf or other cheap 7.62x39 fodder. But you'd be hard pressed to find better ammo for less money. Any of the FedRemWin factory fodder shoots into an inch or just a little more out of my Marlin 336. And the 30-30 bullets are well engineered and perform with boring consistency.

Go buy a 30-30, shoot the heck out of it and have fun. If you meant to include grizzlies, substitue a 45-70 and all my previous advice still holds.

 

[Bear Gulch]

I know a feeow who baits and gets a bear every year with a .223. Now that's not the gutsy part, that comes from walking in to the bait in pitch black dark with only a .223.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Let's look at the original specs here:

Is there a rifle that would work well for defense against bears, but also uses inexpensive ammo and is useful for plinking or deer hunting?

Defense is one thing, hunting another. A hunter picks his shots and usually shoots from some distance. When you're attacked by a bear, it's a VERY fast and short-range encounter.

A lever action in .44 Magnum is as small as I'd go. You can work up light plinking loads for it, and use full-charge, heavy cast bullet loads when in bear country.

 

[Bear Gulch]

Given all the criteria I would still say 8mm. Not the whimpy american loadings but if you shoot good quality handloads it is more than equivalent of a 30-06.

 

[Malamute]

What Vern said.

Hunting is a different game than defense.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Given all the criteria I would still say 8mm. Not the whimpy american loadings but if you shoot good quality handloads it is more than equivalent of a 30-06.

On the other hand, with good quality handloads, the .30-06 is significantly more powerful than the 8X57mm. Both cartridges are underloaded in factory rounds in the US -- but if you check, the same rifle you buy in .30-06 is also offered in .300 Winchester Magnum. Given the .300 WM's larger case body (and hence thinner chamber walls) and larger head size (and hence more thrust on the locking lugs), a .30-06 can be goosed up quite a bit above the 48,000 PSI level set by SAAMI.

 

[cookekdjr]

Bubba up a mauser. Or get an action and build the caliber you want. But 8mm will convinvingly thump most critters.
Bear Gulch,
I gotta say that is one great recommendation. You can find surplus Yugo mausers for dirt cheap (and ammo as well). I could be wrong, but I suspect the combination would blow a big hole through most predators. And it would be very cheap to practice.
-David

 

[JamisJockey]

What Vern said.
Go with a 12ga, or maybe a .303, an 8mm mauser, or a Mosin-Nagant (7.62x54r).

 

[cookekdjr]

Defense is one thing, hunting another. A hunter picks his shots and usually shoots from some distance. When you're attacked by a bear, it's a VERY fast and short-range encounter.
Good point, Vern.
The great thing about a levergun is that you can cycle it almost as fast as a semi-auto, and they're available in easy-handling shorter lengths, which means you can get off your first shot fast, too.
But really, for bear defense in a fast, short-range encounter, the easiest thing to fire fast is a handgun. I like .45 colt revolvers (big fat bullet with less recoil than .454) or a Glock in the largest caliber one can handle (the Glock b/c its light enough that you will always carry it).
-David

 

[DnPRK]

Get a Mossberg 500 with 18" barrel and fill it with slugs for bears. It's short and lightweight and packs a punch. The cost is reasonable too. Same shotgun can be used with inexpensive # 7 1/2 game loads for plinking.

 

[Sistema1927]

If you think that you might walk-up a bear, but mainly want a rifle for plinking and other low cost shooting, you might try a .357 lever action, such as a Marlin 1894C.

You can shoot .38 Special for fun, yet stoke it with Buffalo Bore or Cor-Bon 180-200 grain hard cast wide-meplat rounds just in case you encounter a bruin.

 

[TallPine]

If you are only talking black bear, I would get a lever action 44 mag just because you already have the revolver. However, that's still not terribly cheap for plinking, unless you reload (which you should - pistol calibers are so easy to reload). A lever action is just so handy to carry, at least for me.

OTOH, a Saiga (AK clone) 7.62*39 would work well for your requirements. Use the cheap Wolf ammo (about $0.10 per round) for plinking, and buy some JSP for hunting and/or bear defense (at about the same price as 30-30 ammo).

Just depends on what you want to be seen walking around with ... the "evil black rifle" or the friendly lever action.

 

[Bear Gulch]

Vern, I agree with you a quality 30-06 with good handloads makes me question the need for a .300 win mag. The 06 can come pretty close.

My advocacy of the Mauser is built on price. Buy a 100 dollar rifle and cut it to fit your needs. You can learn a ton about rifles and rifle shooting this way. Further, milsurp ammo can be had for about 60 buck per 1000 rounds which allows for plinking and serious familiarization with the rifle BEFORE you go out looking for Mr. Bear.

For such a rifle, I would also suggest not scope. Good fast acquiring iron sights are what close in work demands. If your getting past 40, get tid of that mauser fron sight, only 18 year olds can see them.

 

[Hellbore]

OK you guys say get a Mauser for $100 but where? I have never seen one that cheap anywhere. All I have seen are $300 + mausers on Gunbroker.com

Where do you guys find cheap guns?

 

[JamisJockey]

Do you have Big 5 where you are?
They routinely sell Mausers and Mosins under $100.
Also, check southern ohio guns and AIM surplus
http://www.southernohiogun.com/
http://www.aimsurplus.com/