Bear spray- Human defense?

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I was wondering, would bear spray use to fight off attacker be classified as excessive force? I have seen its effects on people and it seems much more satisfactory than conventional pepper spray. Also, can you get it in purse sizes? My mother sometimes goes to NY, and has to go through some sketchy neighborhoods to get to her friends home, and although never having an issue, I feel it may help her be more secure in a high crime area.
 
It is often a crime to carry bear spray with the intent of using it on a human being for self defense.

For example some states have pepper spray size or quantity limits that apply for human spray. Some of these states mandate maximum quantities so minuscule it almost makes carrying pepperspray at all pointless. Others allow a little more, but still far less than a bear spray can.
Other states have OC or other pepper spray ingredient legal maximum limits.
Bear spray typically is in excess of both such laws, and as a result would be a crime just to possess for intended human use.
This means someone could actually be charged for having it in a city where there is no bear problems or wildlife encounters such a spray is meant for.

Take Michigan where the legal maximum pepper spray size is 1.2oz, an amount that if you started spraying, missing for half a second and then adjusted the spray to hit the attacker you would probably just get a line of spray on the person before it was expended. If the container sprays so lightly that it can make such small amounts last any length of time then it probably does not put out enough to give a very immediate effect from a few feet away or have enough pressure for range or to force itself into orifices.
During a fight with an attacker the whole thing might end up on their torso or wasted before it hit a vulnerable area.
So if you are going through high crime Detroit and surrounding areas with a bear spray can intended for use on criminal attackers containing several times the legal maximum you would be in clear violation of the law.
 
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Yes it works, but BE careful, if used in a small area, everybody gets hit, even when used properly, outside, it's common for the sprayer to get some, and it says so in the label.

And like Zooster says, you might need a 'it's what I grabbed, I was so scared...' defense.

So, if you have a Hiking rig, with a can on on it in the car, you might get a wave, but if you have a can rigged in a fire extinguisher holder in your car, expect some questions.
 
On the other hand, having used an 'illegal' weapon in self-defense is usually an exception to the law that would have made having the weapon illegal. In most states (all that I'm familiar with), if you can prove that it was self-defense, then having had the weapon wasn't a crime.

Seems a question best asked in the legal forum of THR.
 
^^^^^^ This or "Easy Off" though it may have criminal liabilities attached to use and or possession as well.
Best,
Rob
 
Any advice to intentionally use a product not specifically intended for use on humans will probably get the user into a great deal of legal trouble. Any advise to use a product that can cause permanent harm is probably going to get the user into a very great deal of legal trouble.
 
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Wasp/hornet spray is very poisonous - you don't want to be breathing it. Neurotoxins.
 
Yeah, bear spray works on humans for the same reasons it works on bears.

Is it excessive? You're asking about the magical land of the courtroom where anything can happen.
You could be charged with a felony and plead it to a misdemeanor, pay a fine, and then spend an hour picking up trash in central park. Or, it could go horribly wrong, trigger an allergic reaction that leads to death, and then you have some sort of manslaughter or murder 1st (whatever NY would call it) that you'd have to face.
So, there's that.

I'd just tell mom to carry the spray.
 
Considering the laws involving deadly force, I wonder why bear spray is worse than shooting? That assumes that the attack could have legally been met with deadly force.

Regards,
Jerry
 
Posted by mr16ga: Would you actually wait around to have the spray examined? Not me.
Are you assuming that you would not be caught? What effect do you think that your action might have on a subsequent charging decision?
 
It helps to have information. In America, citizens have a right to the material data safety sheet for everything made of chemicals (which is to say, everything) offered for sale in interstate commerce.

A quick search indicates bear spray has a lot less active ingredient than pepper spray intended for people, and that bear spray doesn't have any secret ingedients just for bears that would make it work better against people. I speculate that bear noses are more sensitive than human noses, so less cpasaicin is needed to deter them.

MSDS for several bear sprays: one is 0.75% capsaicin, another is 1% capsaicin, a dog spray that is 0.44% capsaicin.

Another page has a bear spray with 0.78% capscicin.

Several MSDS for pepper sprays: several seem to be 10% oleoresin capsicum + 1.33% other capsicinoids.

A material safety data sheet (MSDS) for wasp spray : got 0.25% permethrin and 0.1% tetramethrin. EPA should be the go-to site for information on how much pesticide is needed to stop a human, but their site appears to have been scrubbed. One summary says that inhalation of 0.1 mg/liter of air (28.2 mg of chemical per kilogram body weight) has no effect. The CDC page says 5 mg/m^3 (5 milligrams of chemical per cubic meter of air) is the short-term occupational limit, so I infer that at least 500 mg/m^3 will be needed to drop somebody. My personal conclusion: wasp spray may be annoying or unpleasant due to the volatile organic propellants, but you aren't going to affect a human's central nervous system (much less cause tremors or paralysis). YMMV
 
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Are you assuming that you would not be caught? What effect do you think that your action might have on a subsequent charging decision?
I would risk leaving after all I was in such a panic I did not know what I was doing. My sister in-law who has a black belt in some martial art form beat some thug half to death when he jumped her at an ATM. She did not hang around to explain. Neither would I.
 
Read the label. Likely a Federal Crime for misuse.

No

Search other threads on this where it is explained in detail that this internet self defense myth is debunked.
 
Grey_Mana said:
A quick search indicates bear spray has a lot less active ingredient than pepper spray intended for people, and that bear spray doesn't have any secret ingedients just for bears that would make it work better against people. I speculate that bear noses are more sensitive than human noses, so less cpasaicin is needed to deter them.

MSDS for several bear sprays: one is 0.75% capsaicin, another is 1% capsaicin, a dog spray that is 0.44% capsaicin.

Another page has a bear spray with 0.78% capscicin.

Several MSDS for pepper sprays: several seem to be 10% oleoresin capsicum + 1.33% other capsicinoids.


Pepper spray is often misleadingly advertised and described. Even some laws subsequently made based on the misleading data are written by people just as uninformed going by manufacturer advertising and information. There is laws limiting OC content for example in places.

OC or oleoresin capsicum is not the active ingredient, though it is touted by many as the measure of strength of a spray.
An oleoresin is an oil and resin solution. A pepper extract does form an oleoresin which is the original source of this.
But the oil content of the spray is not the strength of the spray. In fact many sprays have a significant quantity of inactive vegetable oil, including some added during manufacture.
There is a lot of inactive oleoresin in many. A manufacturer can easily change the oil content without changing the actual strength.

The result is a 15% OC spray can be weaker than an 10% OC spray. The percentage of oil solution in the spray is an inadequate measure of potency.
You can have two separate 10% sprays and have one saveral times as hot as the other.
The capsaicin content is a more accurate measure of heat, this is a component you can remove and crystallize in a lab. It is much more directly proportional to heat content.
A comparison would be a solution made from jalapenos vs one made from habaneros. You could add an equal amount of that oily extract (or oleoresin) to a food dish, but the same amount of habanero oil would be many times hotter. That is because the same amount of habanero oil will have a much higher concentration of capsaicin.
That is similar to the OC content of a spray, and why the OC percentage means nothing in regards to spray strength. The strength of the oil (oleoresin) is more important than the quantity of the oil in the spray.

Similarly there is less active capsaicinoids, not all of them are equally as hot as each other, and some cite all capsaicinoids as capsaicin, which is misleading as well.

So you cite the bear spray's advertised capsaicin content, but then only the defense sprays OC content. You cannot compare them.
The animal sprays could be stronger or weaker, you cannot tell that based on the OC content.
Now there is human sprays I know that have higher capsacin content. However the primary difference in bear sprays is the rate they fire at. They unleash a large quantity of spray in a relatively short period of time.
Most similar products are limited to police riot control and corrections.
 
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Zooster, there is ONE very important difference
A personal defense spray is often a stream of gel, where a Bear spray is a 30' cone of FOG or misted pepper spray, which if used inside an enclosure, WILL fill the entire space.
 
It's ridiculous; it seems in Michigan, as usual, that the only legal pepper spray is one that you can use only when the creep already has his mitts around your throat. Bear spray seems to be the answer, or one of those HALT canisters that only letter carriers can carry, which have far longer streams. Women, especially, need to be bitching about this to their reps.
 
So far nobody has cited any law making it illegal to spray a human with bear spray. Nor have they cited any study or other information showing that bear spray is too intense for human use. I find it difficult to believe that a product the makers know will be used in strong winds would be so high octane as to be unsafe for people. My understanding has always been that bear spray is less potent than human pepper spray. If they made the stuff so powerful that it would pose a serious risk to people, they'd be sued out of existence. In an actual attack you might have to blast both the bear and the victim with the stuff. So I remain skeptical on the whole notion.

That's not to say that bear spray SHOULD be used against people. It's not designed for it, which is reason enough not to.
 
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