Bear Stopped With Pepper Spray

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Keith

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Bear spray stops charging sow
SAVED: Couple hiking Peters Creek Trail used Counter Assault.


By CRAIG MEDRED
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: June 8, 2003)
In the blink of an eye, a defensive grizzly bear sow was rolling like a freight train through the willows along Peters Creek.

Then the brush was bathed in an orange-gray mist.

And in that instant, hiker Carl Ramm saw the sow's eye go wide "and it was gone," he said.

Neither Ramm nor his wife, Susan Alexander, clearly saw the bear leave. They heard it crashing through the brush as it beat a retreat with a cub trailing behind.

"It sounded like a small cub," Ramm said.

The couple hadn't known until almost the last moment that they had somehow walked between a grizzly sow and her cub along the Peters Creek Trail, eight or nine miles into Chugach State Park last weekend.

Similar situations have prompted nasty encounters with brown bears. Grizzly sows are extremely protective of their young. Statistics on bear attacks show a predominance of sows with cubs ripping into people, though they don't often kill.

Almost always, bear experts say, their goal appears to be to neutralize the human by getting them on the ground. That's why standard advice for unarmed people is to get down and cover up, linking the fingers behind the neck so the bear can't grab you.

Unless, of course, you have some way to defend yourself.

Ramm and Alexander did.

Ramm was packing pepper spray. He admits he wasn't a true believer, but he had decided years ago that it was a lot easier to carry a lightweight canister of Counter Assault than a heavy shotgun.

"Up until about three or four years ago," he said, "I needed to take a 12-gauge, but I got tired of lugging that thing."

Besides, he admitted, he wasn't sure of his ability to hit a charging bear with the shotgun if the need arose.

Bear attacks happen so fast that to be effective one's shooting must be instinctive. There is no time to take careful aim.

"It takes a lot of practice," Ramm said.

"I have a significant amount of experience with firearms, both during my time in the infantry and out. There is no way that with a heavy pack in thick brush (with) a bear coming in fast from my side (I could have) done anything other than wound that bear -- if I had even gotten a round off, which I doubt.''

He could, however, fire off a burst from a can of the pepper spray called Counter Assault, which he ripped from a holster at his hip, because no aiming was required.

Like most other red-pepper-based bear repellents, Counter Assault fans out from the nozzle of a spray can in an ever-widening arc.

One need only point the can in the general direction of the bear and squeeze the trigger.

"We've been carrying it for about two years now," Ramm said. "I did some research. We were both reasonably confident of bear spray."

Now, he said, they are "evangelical true believers."

He confesses to being astounded at how the spray instantaneously stopped the bear and turned her away.

"I don't think this was a bluff charge," he added, "because we were between her and her cub.

"The spray hit, and she turned and was gone. That's what amazed me."

Still, Ramm and Alexander could have lived without the exciting weekend experience. Veterans of 20 years of tromping through the Alaska backcountry, they've been contemplating for days how it might have been avoided.

"The whole thing is kind of embarrassing," said Ramm, who is convinced that if the couple had made more noise and paid more attention while working their way up the Peters Creek Trail, they could have avoided the encounter.

"It was the classic bear-charge scenario, I guess," he said. "We were walking into the wind, in dense willows, near a loud, fast-running creek. We should have been shouting at regular intervals, but weren't. ... We might not even have been talking at the time.

"Anyway, we startled her, and we were quite close."

The Ramms did get a quick warning from the sow.

"I heard her woofing," Ramm said, "though woofing seems like a trivial word for the intensity ... and force of it."

The sound alerted him to grab for the pepper spray. He had it in his hand and ready by the time he actually saw the sow crashing through the brush.

He remembers turning to his right, pointing the pepper spray, thinking "This is really bad,'' and pulling the trigger.

Then the bear was gone.

"The point I want to make is that all this happened in no more than six seconds," he added. "The bear was certainly within 20 feet by then. There wasn't a big margin of error. It was a very serious screw-up for us to have gotten into a situation with so little room for error and such serious consequences."

The encounter, he added, wrecked the rest of the outing.

Ramm and Alexander continued on into the high country above Peters Creek, but they had the bears on their minds the whole time.

"We both should have been carrying pepper spray," Ramm said. "Not that we should have both been using it then, definitely not. One was enough. (But) with another full canister we would have felt fine about staying back there for the full length we'd planned. Instead, we hiked back in another four miles or so, spent the night and packed back out the same way the next day.

"There weren't," he added, "a lot of alternatives for ways back out."

Peters Creek has one trail and lots of brush. The bushwhacking is miserable.

"We would have liked to stay longer," Ramm said, "but we just weren't sure how much spray, in practical terms, we had left."

Pepper-spray aerosols are considered a one-shot deterrent. All companies recommend replacing the cans if they are used. The Ramms are now replacing theirs.

Ramm hopes never to need Counter Assault again but adds that he's now confident that it will work if he needs it.

"We'd be happy to proselytize for pepper spray," he said.
 
Ok if im walking though the woods with nothing but a can of pepper spray....i better be looking for something to use it on....as a seasoning not a defensive weapon.
 
Some advice on dealing with bears:

1) There are two main types of bears in the lower 48, Grizzlies and black bears.

2) Black bears are generally not as aggressive as Gizzlies.

3) Black bears will usually flee if they hear you coming, so a good deterrent is to wear small bell on your shoelaces. The sound of the bells well cause the Black bears to go the other way.

4) Gizzlies MAY be deterred by the sound of the bells, but a good brand of pepper spray is a more effective deterrent if you are attacked.

5) The easiest way to see what type of bear is in your area is to look for their droppings. Black bear droppings are generally smaller than those of Grizzlies and contain seeds and remains of small rodents and insects. Grizzly droppings are much larger and often contain small bells and smell of pepper.
 
That's all very humorous, but the point has been made that unless you can hit an object the size of a softball (a bears brain) running at you at 35 mph in heavy brush with a few seconds warning, these sprays make a lot of sense. They do work.

I started this thread as a way of offering a viable alternative to these constant "Will my 10mm/.45/.223 stop a bear?" threads.

I'm all in favor of carrying an appropriate firearm in bear country, but the odds are that a large can of pepper spray will be more useful, in far more situations.

I point out again (as I often have) that in some areas of Alaska you will likely have several close range encounters every day with grizzlies. You can not go on a fishing trip and leave a trail of dead and wounded bears in your wake - unless you are prepared to spend the requisite time in prison, should you survive wounding a grizzly.

You would not walk around in East LA at night carrying an expensive camera and wearing your Rolex and a souvenir tee shirt to advertise yourself as an easy mark - no, you'd ratchet up your awareness in such a place; you'd put your valuables out of sight and drive through the neighborhood with your doors locked and be prepared to take evasive action. That's what any expert would recommend and certainly, nobody would question your manhood for not going through like Wyatt Earp, blazing away at every perceived danger.

Yet, when we discuss bears (which are a very real danger in many places), we get this same hairy-chested littany where people are advised to shoot their way through the wilderness like a bunch of Cossacks on crack.
 
Nice post Keith and sound advice from some one who knows and isnt just suffering from internet testosterone.. I also carry spray in conjuction with a gun.

WildneverhadtouseitAlaska
 
Yet, when we discuss bears (which are a very real danger in many places), we get this same hairy-chested littany where people are advised to shoot their way through the wilderness like a bunch of Cossacks on crack.
I know you were making a serious point, but that is just too funny.

Anyway, living in MD where one cannot carry a gun I've had to think about non-lethal (and non-gun lethal) self defense alternatives for just about every need. Be prepared means more than just carry and know how to use a gun. Even in CCW states one should have a variety of escalating levels of force to chose from, and the ability to use them all. A can of pepper spray and/or a stun gun (if legal in your area), some degree of unarmed self defense ability (i.e. martial arts or other self defense courses), a knife, possible improvised weapons depending upon where you are (hatchet, axe, machete, hammer) and last- the gun. Even among those of us who carry pepper spray how many actually practice with it? Do you know the POI v. the POA for your brand. I do.
 
Here in Arizona they have bear problems because it dries out so bad. The can't find food so they come out and attack campers that leave food out. A gun shop here sells bear spray and is stronger than pepper spray. I would much rather not come in contact with a bear. Sounds to scary for me.
 
That pepper spray, for bears, sounds like it would be good for fogging a small gang of punks. Don’t know the legalities involved with using it on humans but I could see some times where it would be a good tactical option; such as you are being rushed by several BG's and need to bye some time to draw, run etc. or if a psycho, with a set of brass knuckles, is threatening you, while you are holding an SKS.
 
As part of my training I had to be sprayed with Pepper Spray, I can easily believe it could stop a bear. I never believed the stories about Pepper Spray until I experienced it. It's hard to believe something that painful and effective (lasted 20 minutes WITH treatment) doesn't leave a permanent injury.:what:
 
Don't knock pepper spray. It has been used to run off bears quite effectively for at least 2 decades that I know of. The smarter folks buy the industrial size with the greatest spray range. It used to be about 30-40 feet as I recall. Maybe they have made improvements.

Basically, the spray works on non-goal oriented bears or bears that basically want to make a point but are not willing to commit to a full battle. If the bear has decided to fight you to the finish, more than likely pepper spray won't even be a significant consideration.
 
I can see having another tool in the box in areas with a more dense bear population. Hey they recently tranquilized one a 1/2 mile from me...intersections of 2 freeways.

So how does the bear version differ from the 2 legged perp version? Just thinking if its better...umm why not have for the biggest "critter"...naturally ought to work on a smaller one...

;)
 
Good story. And nobody got hurt.
If bears start thnking people are like skunks maybe they'll start leaving us alone.!
 
Even in CCW states one should have a variety of escalating levels of force to chose from, and the ability to use them all. A can of pepper spray and/or a stun gun (if legal in your area), some degree of unarmed self defense ability (i.e. martial arts or other self defense courses), a knife, possible improvised weapons depending upon where you are (hatchet, axe, machete, hammer) and last- the gun.

Even Runt can't carry all of that stuff :D

Maybe I'll just eat beans and hope that keeps everyone away.
 
Even Runt can't carry all of that stuff

Maybe I'll just eat beans and hope that keeps everyone away.
Hmmm, beans? Probably would be too effective :neener:

Seriously, the improvised weapons would obviously something that was just laying around (or that you planted if at home or in or near your car) so they'd take no room. The knife and pepper spray really don't take any more room than a key ring and they could always be clipped to your belt. The stun gun, well that may be more suitable for women with their purses (I've never really seen them in person to see how large they are since I don't think they are legal in MD- at least no one sells them here). For the most part, the carriable stuff wouldn't be that tough.
 
There are pepper sprays and pepper sprays. The type used by law enforcement or sold as self defense (against humans) has a much lower percentage of capsaicin, and a much shorter range, than the type sold as bear deterrent.
Bears hit with this stuff not only get a dose of pain, they also lose most of their sensory input - sight, scent and taste. These are animals which depend on their senses to a much greater degree than humans and in nearly every case recorded, have backed down, at least temporarily.
A government agency did a test (and I just looked for it and couldn't find it - should have bookmarked it!) where pepper sprays were found to be 100% effective against brown/grizzly bears that were simply too close. It was 88% effective against actual aggressive bears - actually higher, since some of the bears returned and were counted as "not deterred".
That is pretty damned effective, certainly much more so than a bullet.
At a minimum, it buys you time; to climb a tree, to get onto open ground where you can effectively employ a gun, to leave the area.

Keith
 
I've used OC in 4 tussles. Two times it worked like a tactical nuke. One time the tussle was on the ground and I sprayed myself... Didnt stop me. 10% Pepper Foam. Stopped the other fellow. Had him puking. The other time it didn't do much. Fellow was stoned and drunk and the OC just made him laugh. A flying tackle followed by a dog pile put him down and in control.

OC is good, but use it only when you have someone else providing cover. Id rather use an ASP as my less than lethal option. Maybe a new Tazer.
 
you can also buy spray that's formulated for bears and comes in a big fogger canister, instead of a little stream like the keychain variety it sprays a large cone, the only problem is that it you shoot it into the wind you'll get a pretty heavy dose of it yourself.
 
Luckily, we don't have to use anything on the black bears that come visit our bird feeders. They're mostly big wimps and simply walking towards them sends them scampering away. Some times it becomes sorta a group affair. We're sitting about 15 feet away on the front bench watching while our furry, clawed friend lazily chomps on birdseed in the grass. :D
 
I was 15 feet away from a bear once. Standard dumb stunt of cooking s'mores over the campfire, and Momma Ursus and her kids liked the smell. They left when painted with every bright light we had. I had a Nagant loaded with steel core, it still took me the next 2 hours and plans of how to cook bear steak with our eggs for breakfast the next morning to get me to relax. Black bears can be really dangerous if provoked, and provocation can be accidental. I'd want more than 15 feet in between me and anything that can take my head off and is that unpredictable.
 
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