There's a lot of guys on here that are worried about the best ammo to stop a bear. We have bears down here in Alabama. I've seen a couple. They wanted to get away from me more than anything else though. I'm curious about something else. We also have alligators down here and I've seen waaaaaay more of them than bears. So, just for the sake of fairness and fun (and I'm tired of the zombie thing), what would the best ammo be for a gator? I'm a fan of the .45 and that's what I usually have with me, so I'm gonna say a nice 230 gr between the eyes would be my choice. Would it penetrate enough to get to that little bitty reptilian brain way deep inside the skull?
Bears? What about......
- Thread starter Hossfly68
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Mike1234567
member
You mean which caliber or which "handgun" caliber?
Guess you don't watch the gator hunting shows. Just about every one of them uses a .22.
USAF_Vet
Member
Well, I've seen on the TV all dem swamp people shootin' dem gators wif a .22 'mm-hmm.
All kidding aside, If I was getting charged by an agnry 12 foot gator, I'd be ok with my .45 loaded with FMJ.
Wouldn't turn down a 30-06, a .308 or a 12 gauge slug for rampaging gators, either.
All kidding aside, If I was getting charged by an agnry 12 foot gator, I'd be ok with my .45 loaded with FMJ.
Wouldn't turn down a 30-06, a .308 or a 12 gauge slug for rampaging gators, either.
Mike1234567
member
Gators scare the poop out of me. I'd want all the killing power I could carry. I'd probably opt for a .44 Mag with 230gr HST. Am I a wimp? Sure... but I don't care!! 
They scare the poop out of me too. I don't watch Swamp People or anything like that. It seems a little too close to some branches of my family tree. I woulda thought it would take a little more than a .22 to stop a gator, but if it works, I guess thats good. That does take some of the fun out of the question though. Does this mean I'm gonna have to go back to "what's the best zombie gun?"?
USAF_Vet
Member
It only takes a .22, but you have to hit a quarter sized spot on the back of the skull for penetration into the brain. Miss that spot and all you have is a wimpy .22 and a PO'd gator thrashing about wanting to eat your face off more then he did a minute ago.
Carter
Member
And if you miss you have the chance of getting a lot of bone to the face. One of those hunters about lost his eye to bone shrapnel.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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Lack of eye protection is a big point there.
oldfool
Member
actually this just might be the exception to the "bigger is better" supposition
absent that hard to make from a distance CNS shot, odds of killing one quick (if hit anywhere else) with most any caliber is pretty slim
they are stupid, but they are tough
the good news is, they leave you alone, if you leave them alone
just don't let your dawg go swimming in the gator hole
(and don't crowd 'em during mating season)
absent that hard to make from a distance CNS shot, odds of killing one quick (if hit anywhere else) with most any caliber is pretty slim
they are stupid, but they are tough
the good news is, they leave you alone, if you leave them alone
just don't let your dawg go swimming in the gator hole
(and don't crowd 'em during mating season)
MachIVshooter
Member
I dunno..........not many Gators in this land-locked, semi-arid mountain state.
^^^^
Not always the case. There are gator attacks that are unprovoked. I was reading about a man on a kayak who barely avoided death by gator. He was fishing from his kayak in Florida near a high bank when a gator went airborne. The lizard jumped of off the bank after him but he had heard the commotion before it jumped and was made aware of the situation in just the nick of time. The gator was not protecting eggs or mating, so you would have to assume that it was hungry.
Normally, they tend to avoid humans. I lived in Georgia for around 11 years and saw many;especially on the Altamahah River. They would all submerge the second they saw you. I still believe that they are to be respected.
Not always the case. There are gator attacks that are unprovoked. I was reading about a man on a kayak who barely avoided death by gator. He was fishing from his kayak in Florida near a high bank when a gator went airborne. The lizard jumped of off the bank after him but he had heard the commotion before it jumped and was made aware of the situation in just the nick of time. The gator was not protecting eggs or mating, so you would have to assume that it was hungry.
Normally, they tend to avoid humans. I lived in Georgia for around 11 years and saw many;especially on the Altamahah River. They would all submerge the second they saw you. I still believe that they are to be respected.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Well, the only gators we have in Kansas live in a zoo.
But the way I understand it, if you don't hit them in the "sweet spot" in the back of their head, a .44 magnum or a 30-06 isn't going to kill them anytime soon.
If you do hit the sweet spot, a .22 turns the lights out DRT, just as well as anything else.
rc
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
There's a big difference between hunting and stopping a charging bear. There's a HUGE difference between hunting gator and stopping one on the attack. Don't know about AL but in FL, you're required to use a bang stick. I would say this is indeed a case of bigger is better. Problem with gators, aside from their speed and tiny brain, is that breaking a shoulder is probably not gonna help your problem. A spinal shot is probably best, if you miss the brain. Then there's that massive tail. You're usually better off just getting away from them.
PS, I lived in FL for 32yrs and stayed outside as much as I could. I never had the need to shoot a gator.
PS, I lived in FL for 32yrs and stayed outside as much as I could. I never had the need to shoot a gator.
OxBloodOiOiOi
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oldfool
Member
bangstick really has nothing much to do with bigger is better
(and they are really not killed all that easily with a bangstick either, Florida mostly just doesn't want people shooting rifles and such over water, you know, especially at night)
"Some powerheads use the cartridge to propel a barbed spear point into the target.
These are generally used on a bangstick used for alligator hunting, to secure a line to the alligator to prevent escape."
but some bow fish to do the same.. and then try to hit 'em with the contact bangstick
this article gives some good insights into the fun factor
http://bowhunting.net/2010/08/gator-season-is-upon-us/
mostly.. you hook 'em FIRST... then the fun begins... and it ain't that easy to kill em from less than "arm's length" with whatever you have in hand, any caliber..
this is not the same as what you see if watching film of a shark hit underwater with a gas expansion bangstick
from aforementioned link article -
"Once you have your gator under control and you have hit him just behind the eyes with the bang stick the next step is getting his mouth taped shut. Here is where you might need to take another deep breath. You have to reach down and grab him and hold his mouth shut while your trusting buddy tapes him up. Several wraps with electrical tape will ensure his mouth stays shut. The tremendous closing/biting power of a gator is rated at 2500 lbs per square inch of bite pressure. The majority of jaw muscles in a gator are used for closing however so holding his mouth shut can be done by hand. Now that you have his mouth taped shut severing his spine is the next step. We usually use a 1” wide wood chisel and a good hammer. Where the head and neck meet is where you want to place the chisel and give it a few good whacks with the hammer. Just make sure you break the spinal cord, this will slow his movement down but not all of it. He is still going to move some like a snake or a turtle would but done properly you’ll have him right where you want him in the boat.
sort of gives all new meaning to the phrase "under control" don't it ?
(don't forget the 'duct tape')
None of which is what people discussing "best caliber for gator" (handgun, rifle, or shotgun, or bangstick) probably really have in mind.
(but if you can legal do it like that TV show, pull in the hooked gator, stick that rifle muzzle a few inches away from that brain spot, and pop him in just the right spot with a 22 rimfire, then you can forego the wood chisel and hammer... the trick is the hit... and this ain't horseshoes)
PS
I used to fish the gator holes in Lake Iamonia and lake Miccosukee, some times at night
also have had 'em slip off banks and under my canoe when they didn't hear me coming
if you startle 'em, which you can do in a canoe or kayak, they will do that, but it ain't a 'kayak attack', it's just a tad unnerving
especially one as long as a 17 foot canoe, and yeah, they really do get that big, because when you are that close to 'em in a 17 foot canoe, it's real easy to judge their size
leave the dawg at home, and put your fish in a livewell, not on a stringer... and/or get a bigger boat 'cause a bigger caliber gun ain't going to be all that helpful
but I never had the need to shoot one either
(and they are really not killed all that easily with a bangstick either, Florida mostly just doesn't want people shooting rifles and such over water, you know, especially at night)
"Some powerheads use the cartridge to propel a barbed spear point into the target.
These are generally used on a bangstick used for alligator hunting, to secure a line to the alligator to prevent escape."
but some bow fish to do the same.. and then try to hit 'em with the contact bangstick
this article gives some good insights into the fun factor
http://bowhunting.net/2010/08/gator-season-is-upon-us/
mostly.. you hook 'em FIRST... then the fun begins... and it ain't that easy to kill em from less than "arm's length" with whatever you have in hand, any caliber..
this is not the same as what you see if watching film of a shark hit underwater with a gas expansion bangstick
from aforementioned link article -
"Once you have your gator under control and you have hit him just behind the eyes with the bang stick the next step is getting his mouth taped shut. Here is where you might need to take another deep breath. You have to reach down and grab him and hold his mouth shut while your trusting buddy tapes him up. Several wraps with electrical tape will ensure his mouth stays shut. The tremendous closing/biting power of a gator is rated at 2500 lbs per square inch of bite pressure. The majority of jaw muscles in a gator are used for closing however so holding his mouth shut can be done by hand. Now that you have his mouth taped shut severing his spine is the next step. We usually use a 1” wide wood chisel and a good hammer. Where the head and neck meet is where you want to place the chisel and give it a few good whacks with the hammer. Just make sure you break the spinal cord, this will slow his movement down but not all of it. He is still going to move some like a snake or a turtle would but done properly you’ll have him right where you want him in the boat.
sort of gives all new meaning to the phrase "under control" don't it ?
(don't forget the 'duct tape')
None of which is what people discussing "best caliber for gator" (handgun, rifle, or shotgun, or bangstick) probably really have in mind.
(but if you can legal do it like that TV show, pull in the hooked gator, stick that rifle muzzle a few inches away from that brain spot, and pop him in just the right spot with a 22 rimfire, then you can forego the wood chisel and hammer... the trick is the hit... and this ain't horseshoes)
PS
I used to fish the gator holes in Lake Iamonia and lake Miccosukee, some times at night
also have had 'em slip off banks and under my canoe when they didn't hear me coming
if you startle 'em, which you can do in a canoe or kayak, they will do that, but it ain't a 'kayak attack', it's just a tad unnerving
especially one as long as a 17 foot canoe, and yeah, they really do get that big, because when you are that close to 'em in a 17 foot canoe, it's real easy to judge their size
leave the dawg at home, and put your fish in a livewell, not on a stringer... and/or get a bigger boat 'cause a bigger caliber gun ain't going to be all that helpful
but I never had the need to shoot one either
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oldfool
Member
couple more links to bangstick 'calibers'.. or leastways how used
http://www.alligatorhuntingequipment.com/bangstick.html
http://alligator-hunting-equipment.com/bangsticks.html
but remember now, you can only have just so much fun, do don't be banging your boat !
http://www.alligatorhuntingequipment.com/bangstick.html
http://alligator-hunting-equipment.com/bangsticks.html
but remember now, you can only have just so much fun, do don't be banging your boat !
lemaymiami
Member
I have used a bangstick (12 ga) on more than one occasion years and years ago, working as a mate on charterboats down here in south Florida. In that era sharks of every kind were killed for trophies (glad that's out of style these days) so you got plenty of practice. It didn't matter what kind of shot, or how powerfull the loading, you were in the business of placing a contact wound to the head at point blank range. The actual effect was that the critter (in some cases up to and over 10' long) stopped moving for a minute or two - during that time you and the captain (and anyone else that wanted to help) were dragging the animal in the boat - before it started thrashing around again.... Once in the cockpit (these were 40 to 55' boats) you allowed it to go nuts until it settled down (keeping your anglers away from either end....). The bang stick in 12 ga. delivered a killing wound every time, but that didn't mean that the teeth snapping and tail whipping didn't go on for a while...
As for 'gators, I earn my living guiding in the Everglades (15 years full time now) and encounter both 'gators and crocs just about daily in the salt or brackish areas where I run. The crocs are fish eaters (according to the marine biologists) but 'gators are just plain dangerous wherever you find them. A big one is a mortal danger to any small kids or dogs (and have been known to make an un-provoked attack on women of small stature). Attacks on grown men are not very common and usually involve a hand or foot being grabbed when the critter can't see anything else. A bull 'gator will attack a small skiff in mating season but that's a possible rival situation -not a feeding situation (of course whoever is in the little skiff or canoe will swear that it was an attempt to eat him or her...). A big 'gator can outrun you on the ground and I'ver personally seen a big one attack and eat a great blue heron that was standing on top of a seawall that was every bit of four feet off of the water (that 'gator came up like a missile, grabbed the bird, then slowly slid back down the seawall with feathers everywhere....). I've had more than one occasion to poke or prod a 'gator with a pushpole to keep him from eating a hooked fish. It's like poking a log, they're that well armored... I avoid them whenever possible and never like to see small kids near the water at boat ramps where I know they hang out. If one grabs a kid you'd be hard pressed to stop what's happening...
As for 'gators, I earn my living guiding in the Everglades (15 years full time now) and encounter both 'gators and crocs just about daily in the salt or brackish areas where I run. The crocs are fish eaters (according to the marine biologists) but 'gators are just plain dangerous wherever you find them. A big one is a mortal danger to any small kids or dogs (and have been known to make an un-provoked attack on women of small stature). Attacks on grown men are not very common and usually involve a hand or foot being grabbed when the critter can't see anything else. A bull 'gator will attack a small skiff in mating season but that's a possible rival situation -not a feeding situation (of course whoever is in the little skiff or canoe will swear that it was an attempt to eat him or her...). A big 'gator can outrun you on the ground and I'ver personally seen a big one attack and eat a great blue heron that was standing on top of a seawall that was every bit of four feet off of the water (that 'gator came up like a missile, grabbed the bird, then slowly slid back down the seawall with feathers everywhere....). I've had more than one occasion to poke or prod a 'gator with a pushpole to keep him from eating a hooked fish. It's like poking a log, they're that well armored... I avoid them whenever possible and never like to see small kids near the water at boat ramps where I know they hang out. If one grabs a kid you'd be hard pressed to stop what's happening...
Loosedhorse
member
Don't know as much about gators, but I've reseached crocs, and I suspect they're similar.
Crocs, being cold-blooded, have a low oxygen requirement, much lower than mammals. Shooting them in the heart, as has been implied, has much too slow an effect. Brain and high spine are the answer. Even then, the rest of the spine will be able to drive reflex actions of the limbs (scratching, thrashing, etc.) for quite a while.
I'm trying to figure the circumstance the OP envisions in which you would need to shoot a "charging" alligator--like I said, I know little about them. However, from short distance, your usual SD handgun will do fine, if you hit the right spot. Seems a 12 gauge might increase your chances of hitting the right spot on a moving target.
Crocs, being cold-blooded, have a low oxygen requirement, much lower than mammals. Shooting them in the heart, as has been implied, has much too slow an effect. Brain and high spine are the answer. Even then, the rest of the spine will be able to drive reflex actions of the limbs (scratching, thrashing, etc.) for quite a while.
I'm trying to figure the circumstance the OP envisions in which you would need to shoot a "charging" alligator--like I said, I know little about them. However, from short distance, your usual SD handgun will do fine, if you hit the right spot. Seems a 12 gauge might increase your chances of hitting the right spot on a moving target.
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TwoWheelFiend
Member
12GA buckshot
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
From a short distance, I don't think a normal human reflex would be fast enough to even start reaching for a gun.
rc
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