Bedding Boyd's Spike Camp 22 Marlin Stock??

[Vettepilot555]

Just bought my third Boyd's stock. I really like them. This one is for my old Marlin 795 mag (clip) fed 22LR.

Changing the stock was a 3 minute breeze. However, this stock, (like the original), has no pillars nor recoil lug area. The action area is a giant cavern, and the action just floats in there; held in place only by the action sandwiching the stock between the top of the action and the bottom trigger plate. Before final tightening of the action screws, clamping the "sandwich" together, you can slide the action fore and aft a good 1/4" or more!! Not good.

I have no problem bedding the stock, but with this one with nothing but a "cavern" for the action, I don't even know where to start. Surprisingly, I can not find anything in net searches. Others must have encountered the same problem...

Help??? Thanks in advance!!

Vettepilot

 

[wiscoaster]

.... However, this stock, (like the original), has no pillars nor recoil lug area. ...

Just curious as to why you think bedding is needed if the original stock was neither pillared nor lugged. Have you tried shooting it as-is?

 

[Vettepilot555]

I would like to use the gun to learn/practice precision shooting, and as such would like to know that any inconsistency is me; not the gun.

Thanks,
Vettepilot

 

[wiscoaster]

Well, it's probably not the best gun to learn precision shooting, but if it's what you want to use, you could rule out yourself if you shoot it bench-rested. Then you could see if the gun itself has an inherent inconsistency. I don't think you should really do any more with it until you've actually shot it in its current configuration. You might be chasing after something that doesn't have any bearing on the end goal. Just my opinion.

 

[Vettepilot555]

Everything I've read says that 22lr rifles, if anything, need proper bedding more than any other gun. The way this particular action just floats around in the stock just can't be good for accuracy. I can just slighly loosen the action screws, and the action can be pushed around over 1/4" in the stock! The loose inletting and lack of through bolt holes in the wood probably allowed them to produce the gun, and this replacement stock, much cheaper, but did nothing for accuracy.

Further, I have seen it recommended numerous times to practice, and refine your technique using rimfire, before blowing a ton of money with your center fire. It is really a way to go now, with the current, horrible, ammo situation...

Vettepilot

 

[Vettepilot555]

So let's say you're adding aluminum pillars to a stock. There are let's say, two action screws that go through wood, and hold the action and trigger plate in place in the stock. The worry is that the wood will compress, and/or compress unevenly. So the screw holes in the wood are enlarged, and aluminum pillars are glued in. Now the action is both located securely in the stock, and tightening the screws clamps the trigger plate and action against aluminum, which won't compress, making a more secure fitment.

On my Marlin 795, the action screws do not go through wood or plastic holes in the stock. The inlet for the action in the stock is just a large open, rectangular cavern. The action screws float through that rectangular opening. When you tighten them, the action is pulled down against the stock, and the trigger plate is drawn upwards against the ledge for it in the stock. In other words, instead of the action literally being bolted into the stock, in this case the stock is merely (rather flimsily) sandwiched between the action and the trigger plate. Indeed, if you "horsed" down hard on the screws, you could easily bend the trigger plate, as it has no support beneath the plate at the screw holes. This is why the original, plastic Marlin 795 trigger plates often crack or break.

So, how would you go about adding pillars in that "free space" in a Marlin 795 stock??

Thanks again,
Vettepilot

 

[wiscoaster]

You could just temporarily shim the inletting to address the "looseness" in the action that concerns you so as to remove that as a factor in the rifle's accuracy cosistency. If you find that it's needed then you could proceed with a full-blown bedding job.

 

[wiscoaster]

.... current, horrible, ammo situation...

It's really not that bad anymore. I haven't had any problem getting the ammo I need. You do have to be willing to pay the higher post-pandemic prices and the outrageous shipping fees. But you have to realize prices are never going to return to pre-pandemic levels and accept the realities of that situation and deal with it;

 

[Vettepilot555]

It's frustrating, but often times true in forums,, that a person asks how to do something, and people respond by trying to talk them out of it. Sure, I suppose that sometimes it "saves someone from themselves", but pillar bedding isn't necessarily a destructive effort, not to the gun, the wallet, nor to the person doing the work.

I've built, repaired, and upgraded thousands of things in my long, eventful life. I won't hurt myself.... nor the gun!

And if everyone would refuse to pay the ammo prices, and quit hoarding, prices would come down. The doomsayers all said the same things during the 2013 shortages...

Thank you, but some diligent web searching has finally yielded answers to my questions regarding pillar bedding this somewhat unique case.

Vettepilot

 

[BBBBill]

Thank you, but some diligent web searching has finally yielded answers to my questions regarding pillar bedding this somewhat unique case.

Do you mind sharing what you found? Might save someone else here the time and trouble to look it up.

 

[Vettepilot555]

As you can see in the pictures, there is virtually no support at the rear action screw on his stock. He added a pillar, then added material to surround and make fast, the new aluminum pillar.

On my stock, I shall have to do this on both the rear AND front action screw positions, as my stock has no support at either location. It just might not make the gun shoot any better, but it WILL make me feel "all warm and fuzzy", and sleep better at night...

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357150

Vettepilot

 

[wiscoaster]

.... a person asks how to do something, and people respond by trying to talk them out of it....

People respond by giving their advice based on their knowledge and experience, usually assuming that the reason the other people are here in the first place is because they don't yet possess that knowledge and experience. Not knowing what the other person's level is the best advice is usually "try something simpler first to find out if you really need to do what you want to do, because if you're doing it for the first time, there's a high probability you're really going to regret it." Don't assume they're trying to "talk you out of it" - rather assume they're giving you other options that may prevent you from regretting it. You didn't really disclose your resume until post #11, and you said in your first post "Help???", so forgive me for presuming your experience level is lower than what it really is. Your pillaring solution looks to be a reasonable solution and if you can find some spacers of a proper diameter to give a tight fit you don't need to do all that extra filling, either (which actually is bedding the pillars instead of the action, so placement and alignment are crucial).

 

[Vettepilot555]

I don't know how you can say that about the reference post. In picture #7, the new aluminum pillar at the rear is just "tack glued" in place, with only about 30% of the surface of one side of the pillar attached. In picture #8, he has properly filled in all around the pillar, giving it full and proper support. This near total lack of support at that area is why Marlin 795's and 995's commonly have a cracked trigger plate at that rear screw area. This problem is so common that an aftermarket aluminum trigger plate was developed and marketed. Over tightening that rear screw, with no support under it, sucks the rear part of the trigger plate down into the stock inlet, distorting it and cracking it. This also causes erratic trigger function and reset!

Pillaring this area would be a worthwhile endeavor, even if it did nothing for accuracy! The hardware store sells aluminum spacers that might be perfect for this job. If not, I'll just turn a couple up on my lathe.

Vettepilot

 

[wiscoaster]

Let us know how your project turns out.

 

[Rule3]

I don't know how you can say that about the reference post. In picture #7, the new aluminum pillar at the rear is just "tack glued" in place, with only about 30% of the surface of one side of the pillar attached. In picture #8, he has properly filled in all around the pillar, giving it full and proper support. This near total lack of support at that area is why Marlin 795's and 995's commonly have a cracked trigger plate at that rear screw area. This problem is so common that an aftermarket aluminum trigger plate was developed and marketed. Over tightening that rear screw, with no support under it, sucks the rear part of the trigger plate down into the stock inlet, distorting it and cracking it. This also causes erratic trigger function and reset!

Pillaring this area would be a worthwhile endeavor, even if it did nothing for accuracy! The hardware store sells aluminum spacers that might be perfect for this job. If not, I'll just turn a couple up on my lathe.

Vettepilot

I was going to suggest RFC as these are the kind of things they LIVE for over there!

Nowhere in the linked thread does he say how the gun shot before and after, but the poster enjoyed what he was doing.
Have fun and good luck.

 

[Vettepilot555]

Well, I can't imagine any scenario whereby a rifle could shoot worse by eliminating uneven pressure and/or tension on the action itself. Further, in this case it will also create a more consistent, (and safer?), trigger function. On mine, before I replaced the original plastic trigger plate with the DIP aluminum one, if you tightened that rear screw just a touch too much, the trigger would not reset! So as I said, it seems like the mod is a good idea in any case...

Vettepilot

 

[LoonWulf]

I bedded in a carbon tube as a pillar on my 795, bedded the action, and the first bit of the barrel. The carbon tube I added because of the trigger reset issue as noted. Then I just stoped tightening the rear screw that much as it didn't help alot.

Didn't see much change in accuracy for all the change I made (which amounted to about 300dollars in parts), but it was already pretty good. It runs about 1" at 50yds, and 1.5-1.75 at 100.
I actually just gave it to a friend of mine this evening.

 

[a2x4bbl]

Please post pictures of your bedding . I would like to see the end result . So here is my story and how it relates to you . Same thing plastic factory stock loose as hell , you could see it flex when you tightened down the screws , tighten down that one just a little too much and no reset on the trigger . This was years ago and no aftermarket stocks were available. Was told “ That’s a Marlin 22 , throw away gun “ when I asked about stocks and bedding . Boyd’s offered nothing for it at the time . Except for uninlet stocks . No barrel channel , nothing . This stock has since been discontinued. So I ordered it , put it on my mill and started measuring my action and cutting . 2 inch groups before at 50 yards and now it will dump a full mag under an inch with boring regularity . I did not bed because I milled the stock to the receiver and only removed enough wood to clear everything. It didn’t come with finger groves , I measured my hand and milled them in . I even called Boyd’s about bedding and they said if I had a tight fit everywhere it wasn’t necessary. It was a neat project and I enjoyed it . Posted a picture online and half that responded said “ You did all that work to a Marlin 22 your an idiot “ . Screw them all .
Bed your rifle , it will probably help , it certainly can’t hurt and please post pictures. I will be bedding my first rifle soon and am interested in the process . Please post pictures of your rifle . We like pictures, lots of pictures. Ignore the naysayers.

 

[jmorris]

Pillaring this area would be a worthwhile endeavor, even if it did nothing for accuracy!

As long as accuracy is not your goal and something else is, I agree.

Well, I can't imagine any scenario whereby a rifle could shoot worse by eliminating uneven pressure and/or tension on the action itself.

It might be a great project to eliminate speculation, guessing and imagination all together in doing your project. It would certainly give you a lot more knowledge at the end.

I would start with jut the rifle, as it came out of the box and test it. Get a torque wrench and test different mounts of tightening and its effects. Then “clean up” the stock and test again. Bed just the first 3” of the barrel, test again. Free float the rest of the stock and test again. Now do your other stuff and test again. Done one at a time and tested in between, you will know exactly what improves the accuracy and what doesn’t, more importantly to what degree.

FWIW some of the most accurate firearms in existence are ones that have no pressure on them from screws to the action at all. The barrel is what is mounted, the action is in air. This isn’t a vise it’s an unlimited benchrest rifle.



If having the action bolted down was the most accurate way to do it, these rifles would be built differently as shooting bullets into the same hole is really the only thing these things are good for.

On something like your rifle (steel barrel/aluminum receiver), since you are going to have a new stock anyway, it might be worth pending up the area in the stock you are not going to use, so it doesn’t contact the receiver at all and epoxy the barrel only to the stock and see how it does.

This is one of my 10/22’s held in that way, that target is a 10 shot 100 yard group.