Beeman R7 problem

[Robert Barr]

Hello,

A couple weeks ago I received a brand new full tune Beeman R7. To cut to the chase, this gun shoots fine with iron sights ( at least as good as I can shoot iron sights ) but when I mount a scope it's all over the place. I've tried four different scopes including a new Hawke 4x32 and it's all the same. One shot high, next shot dead center, next shot off the paper low, etc. I bought a compensation mount but that didn't help. The person I bought it from says that if it shoots good with iron sights he can think of no reason it wouldn't shoot with a scope. Am I nuts? Has anyone had a problem like this?

Thanks

 

[SavingNolanRyan]

Maybe issues with Parallax? If your scope is set for 150y parallax by default and you are trying to shoot at 10m, maybe that can cause some issues. Since it is various scopes and the same issue, can it be more to do with the mounts/rings you are using? Maybe something is loose.

Mike

 

[egd]

Grasping at straws but, are your screws that hold the stock to the action all tight? Especially the ones on the trigger guard.

 

[Robert Barr]

Everything is tight for sure, all the scopes I have tried have been AO scopes, I took the Hawke off the R7 and tried it on another gun, it was fine. I don't know but thanks for your suggestions.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Is the scope air gun rated? An air gun will destroy a regular scope.

 

[JohnKSa]

Are you getting the barrel closed consistently after cocking and is it snapping into the closed position positively and holding steady?

If the detent holding it closed is weak, or if you're closing it very tentatively, it could be that the closed (ready to fire) position isn't consistent which could result in significant elevation differences from one shot to another.

I'm NOT saying to slam it closed, or that the detent needs to be really hard to overcome, but it does need to be closed firmly enough so that it locks consistently into place and the detent needs to hold it securely once closed.

The reason that might not show up with iron sights is because typically (from the factory) both the front and rear sight are mounted on the barrel.

 

[Robert Barr]

Are you getting the barrel closed consistently after cocking and is it snapping into the closed position positively and holding steady?

If the detent holding it closed is weak, or if you're closing it very tentatively, it could be that the closed (ready to fire) position isn't consistent which could result in significant elevation differences from one shot to another.

I'm NOT saying to slam it closed, or that the detent needs to be really hard to overcome, but it does need to be closed firmly enough so that it locks consistently into place and the detent needs to hold it securely once closed.

The reason that might not show up with iron sights is because typically (from the factory) both the front and rear sight are mounted on the barrel.

That is a really good point. I have noticed that if I close it too firmly it has a tendency to want to bounce back open. I'm going to work on that.

 

[egd]

Humm, bounce back open sure doesn't sound right.

 

[JohnKSa]

Agree. It's not hard to defeat the detent on my R7, but it's a solid enough lockup that it certainly doesn't bounce open when I close it.

There's a bar/pin that runs through the action that serves as one side of the detent. If that pin is the wrong diameter or maybe bent, it could possibly be replaced. But if it's the ball/spring arrangement, I have no idea how you would go about servicing that. From what I can tell, the ball is held in place by deforming the metal of the barrel block around it. I don't know how you'd get it out, or if you did, how you'd go about re-installing it.

 

[jmars]

Are you using heavy duty rings made for an airgun? Are they torqued tightly (do not crush the tube)? Have you marked your gun and scope with a pencil so that it is easy to see scope slippage?

Is your barrel pivot screw too tight or too loose? Your barrel should barely fall of it's own weight in a cocked gun.

What pellets are you using?

 

[243winxb]

Barrel break guns. The iron sights are on the barrel. The scope is on the receiver. When the barrel doesnt lock up in the exact position, every time, accuracy will suffer.

Buy a side lever cocking gun, where the barrel and receiver are fixed.

https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/200...and-underlevers-advantages-and-disadvantages/

 

[JohnKSa]

I've got a few barrel cockers, a couple of side-levers, and an underlever. When they are working, I'm not good enough to tell that there's any accuracy difference.

It is definitely something to keep in mind if something goes wrong with the system.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

The barrel should not have a tendency to pop back open after closing. I would be very suspicious of the locking mechanism. I have an HW30, basically the same rifle. It locks up nicely by simply returning the barrel to the closed position. It groups just as nicely with scope as with iron sights if the shooter does his job.

Personally I think the accuracy disadvantages of a break barrel are overblown. All of my break barrels are scoped and they all group quite well with the right pellet.

 

[Robert Barr]

Are you using heavy duty rings made for an airgun? Are they torqued tightly (do not crush the tube)? Have you marked your gun and scope with a pencil so that it is easy to see scope slippage?

Is your barrel pivot screw too tight or too loose? Your barrel should barely fall of it's own weight in a cocked gun.

What pellets are you using?

Are you using heavy duty rings made for an airgun? Are they torqued tightly (do not crush the tube)? Have you marked your gun and scope with a pencil so that it is easy to see scope slippage?

Is your barrel pivot screw too tight or too loose? Your barrel should barely fall of it's own weight in a cocked gun.

What pellets are you using?

I'm using a UTG drooper mount and UTG rings. When I got the gun the barrel would flop down under it's own weight, I carefully tightened it a bit until it would just hold itself.

I don't have a great selection of 177 pellets right now but without the scope it doesn't seem picky. I've shot some pretty good groups at 10 and 15 yards and I went two for two on a water bottle cap at 25 yards. That's about as good as I ever do with iron sights and my reading glasses.

 

[Robert Barr]

The barrel should not have a tendency to pop back open after closing. I would be very suspicious of the locking mechanism. I have an HW30, basically the same rifle. It locks up nicely by simply returning the barrel to the closed position. It groups just as nicely with scope as with iron sights if the shooter does his job.

Personally I think the accuracy disadvantages of a break barrel are overblown. All of my break barrels are scoped and they all group quite well with the right pellet.

I agree with you. I have a Beeman R9, a Weihrauch HW50 , a RWS 48 and an unbelievable number of Chinese springers ( my wife thinks I'm crazy ) and I've never had this problem before.

 

[mus]

Adding to the sound advice above: the barrel seal is still 100% OK?

 

[Robert Barr]

Yes, the barrel seal looks good. This is a brand new gun tuned by one of the most respected air gun tuners/sellers around. His opinion is that the gun can't be the problem so it must be pellets, scope, the way I hold the gun.....I was hoping someone had seen this type of problem before.

 

[243winxb]

Seen it with this Remington Vantage 1200 - 177. Took scope off.

To much lube or wrong kind in the chamber can enlarge groups & change zero.

Edit add- Wood stocks that are not sealed well, may make the zero change, as moisture content changes. Doesnt happen overnight. Seen it with a Marlin 39 22lr with scope.

 

[JohnKSa]

This is a brand new gun tuned by one of the most respected air gun tuners/sellers around. His opinion is that the gun can't be the problem so it must be pellets, scope, the way I hold the gun..

It can't be the pellets if they shoot well with iron sights.
It can't be the way you hold the gun if it shoots well with iron sights.

It might be the scope, but you've tried several. It seems unlikely that they are all bad and bad in the same way (erratic elevation errors).
It might be the scope mount but you've tried two. It seems unlikely that they are both bad and bad in the same way (erratic elevation errors).

If you really want to nail it down, you could mount a cheap laser sight directly to the rails on the receiver and then attach a laser pointer to the barrel with some tape or something. Then adjust the laser sight so that it aims at the laser dot from the laser pointer.

Now cock the barrel and return it to the firing position repeatedly. You don't need to shoot--in fact it would be a bad idea with something just taped to the barrel, the point is to see if the dots always line up or if they sometimes end up misaligned when the barrel comes back to the firing position.

 

[cslinger]

Just an off the cuff shot from the hip.

Assuming everything is tight and locking up well etc. ...... 2 thoughts come to mind.
-When you are shooting with the scope you are most likely using a different hold/cheek weld etc. and this could be your problem.
-When using irons you are likely breaking your shots with little thought where as when using the scope you might be “chasing the reticle or last hit etc.” because you are able to see your hits. Therefore you might be subconsciously or consciously over controlling the gun where you are not doing so with the irons.

I have done both things a time or two.

Chris

 

[Robert Barr]

I thank you all for your suggestions, first chance I get I will work on it some more. Unfortunately, the person I bought it from wants a minimum of $50.00 just to look at the gun and with shipping I'm not sure that makes sense. I may just shoot it with iron sights. Thanks again for your help. By the way, can anyone recommend someone that might take a look at the gun and possibly figure out what's wrong with it?

 

[plumberroy]

Have you had someone else shoot it. If you know someone who you know can shoot tries it that would confirm it is the gun ,not something you are doing

 

[Robert Barr]

Have you had someone else shoot it. If you know someone who you know can shoot tries it that would confirm it is the gun ,not something you are doing

The next time my son in law stops by I will have him shoot it, he's a pretty good shot with an air gun, but I'm really not expecting him to do any better than I have. I probably own 50 or more air rifles by now and I've been shooting over 50 years. No one has ever accused me of being a great shot with a springer but with a scope I'd say I'm average to above average. When I try to shoot this R7 I spray pellets all over the place. I refuse to believe it's more hold sensitive than some of my other guns.

 

[243winxb]

I've tried four different scopes including a new Hawke 4x32 and it's all the same. One shot high, next shot dead center, next shot off the paper low, etc

Scopes mounts can be shimmed, adjusted to get a zero. If the scopes are not mounted correctly, there will be problems.

Sorry, i don't know how much experience you have mounting scopes?

 

[Robert Barr]

Scopes mounts can be shimmed, adjusted to get a zero. If the scopes are not mounted correctly, there will be problems.

Sorry, i don't know how much experience you have mounting scopes?

I've mounted many scopes although I wouldn't call myself an expert. The problem I'm having is the gun , with a scope , doesn't shoot in the same place twice. If I could get it to group anywhere on the paper I could figure out how to adjust but it shoots from 5 inches high to 10 inches low. Quite a bit of vertical stringing too. Yesterday I pulled the Hawke scope off the R7 after shooting all over the place and mounted it on my Xisico xs12. Took a few shots to zero and I was stacking pellets at 25 yards. It's driving me nuts. Someone suggested I get someone else to shoot the gun with and without the scope and I think that's a great idea.