Belgian Guild Shotgun

[ReadyontheRight]

I am looking at a used side-by-side 16 ga shotgun. It seems to be in great shape for a used SxS and handles well. It has engraving on the receiver, but no words. The price tag says "Belgian Guild", but I can't find anything on it that will tell me the manufacturer.

I'll do the SxS checkout as described in other threads. I did a search on "Belgian Guild" and just came up with 2 references that said Belgian Guild guns tend to be a lot of gun for the $$. Roughly how much should I expect to pay and how do I tell what kind of shotgun it really is if there are no markings? I'm looking for a shooter, not a wallhanger.

Also -- how can I make sure the barrel is not damascus?

Thanks!

 

[Jim Watson]

I wish I knew, I have one here in 12 gauge from a friend's estate that I have been trying to sell for his widow and kids.

First, take it down and look at the markings on the flat bottom of the barrel breech and the water table - flat surface of the receiver. Best make a list, there are a lot of markings used at various times. Let me know and I will try to decode them from the article in the 1978 Gun Digest.

The main ones are like so:

The basic long time Belgian proof mark is "E L G" (star) in an oval, with or without a crown.

Smokeless proof test is marked by a lion or a crown over "PV".

It should be marked, probably on the barrel flats, one way or another, either "65" or "70." This is the chamber length in mm.
CAUTION, 65mm = 2 9/16" and 16 gauge was the last to go to 2 3/4" = 70 mm shells. You can find 2 9/16" (sometimes listed as 2 5/8") shells or a good quality gun can be rechambered, but it sure takes away a lot of the "value" of a decent no-name gun.

You ought to be able to see the pattern of Damascus unless the barrels have been worn or polished enough to eliminate it. The one here is marked in English: "Made of Best Crucible Steel"... but doesn't have a nitro proofmark. I read that and others to say 1891 or earlier! I had NO idea, it just looked modern. As doubles go.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Jim is fecally cognizant. One of the great things about this BB is the depth and variety of experience. Thanks, Jim.

Guild guns also have French proofs sometimes, depending on where they were sold. Oft the name on them is that of a retailer, the equivalent of the "Hardware Store" shotguns sold here, though usually of better quality.

For Damascus, dismount the forearm and note the finish and metal under where the forearm goes. This discolors less than exposed metal and the swirls and arabesques are more blatant.

One caveat, besides the dreaded short chambers....

Shotguns like this are oft 19th century guns of questionable quality. Some are excellent shooters. I had one that would make your heart sing to look at, and made me look like a good shot on woodcock one fine afternoon. But, it took a little smithing to get there, and that only after a smith OK'd it that I would trust with my life, because I was. If you get this, negotiate for an inspection period of some days and a return policy. Hie thyself to that kind of smith wiht it. If he says he'd be willing to shoot it himself, keep it.

For those Guild guns that pass muster,$300-500 can get you one great shotgun. Chambers may have to be lengthened and chokes opened, but the quality is often high, and so's the fun.