Belgium Says Air Marshals Would Make Flights More Dangerous

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Mark Tyson

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01/09/2004 - Belgium Says Air Marshals Would Make Flights More Dangerous

The Associated Press

BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) -- Against a backdrop of European objections to tough U.S. aviation security measures, the head of Ireland's Ryanair said Friday that putting armed guards on flights would make travel more dangerous.

"Putting armed air marshals on airplanes isn't going to make an airplane more secure, it's going to make it less secure," said Ryanair CEO Michael O' Leary in Brussels.

"The fewer guns there are, the safer the situation is."

Last month, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced that airlines would be required to place armed law enforcement officers on flights to the United States "where necessary."

Ryanair does not have flights to the United States.

The Irish government, which holds the European Union presidency, said Wednesday it was organizing a meeting of EU aviation chiefs for Jan. 16 in Brussels to discuss the U.S. request.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, many airlines have acceded to U.S. requests to install bulletproof cockpit doors on aircraft and share passenger lists with U.S. authorities.
 
Now that's silly. The head of Ireland's airline makes a silly statement, he just happens to be in Brussels at the time and it's attributed as a Belgian statement in the headline?
 
Let's collectively shove our heads into the sand the next time a terrorist comes aboard armed with a knitting needle.
 
Wow he's right. Look how safe the four planes were on 9/11. Imagine how terrrible it would of been if the terrorists had been armed with guns instead of blades. Gosh they might of actually flown the planes into buildings!!! Thank god there were no guns involved.:cuss: :banghead:
 
Just exactly why does AP consider it newsworthy to report when a European puddle jumper, which doesn't even make flights to the US, spouts off the standard European anti-US/anti-GUN commentary?
 
Belgium needs to shut up, stop trying to think, and get back to work making their wonderful chocolates.
 
Someone oughta start a pool...

One of these geniuses (that actually flies to the US) is going to push the issue and get refused permission to enter US airspace. Its just a matter of time.
 
Ryan Air playing on the British fear of nasty guns.

</sarcasm>

Lot of nonsense, not everyone over here is quite so dumb.

Lets see armed air marshal versus terrorist with box cutter, which one will I bet on. :)

BTW puddlejumper is about right, I've seen the Ryan Air hanger at Glasgow airport, it's a tent! I'm not kidding it's a canvas structure which looks like it might last it's way through a weekend rock concert.
 
Perhaps someone should inform them that El Al has used armed skymarshals for decades and so far, none of them has accidentally shot down the jet and no jets have been hijacked. Seems to make them more secure to me.
 
"The fewer guns there are, the safer the situation is."

Aaaaah. Thank you for enlightening me. So, if the terrorists have box cutters and we have nothing, that is a safer situation than if the terrorists have box cutters and we have firearms?

Man, I would never have figured that out on my own.
 
Wouldn't this be Ireland, not Belgium? And not the Irish govt., but merely the head of a 3rd-rate airline from a 3rd-rate country.
 
Belgium needs to shut up, stop trying to think, and get back to work making their wonderful chocolates.
and waffles!

lol speaking of food, I think it's kinda poetic that this statement was made in brussels. They can keep their airlines and their damn sprouts!

(yes, I realize it was made by the head of an Irish airline, it was just a weak attept at a joke:) )

on a serious note. If foreign airlines refused to fly to America (or weren't allowed to), would they really be hurting us or shooting themselves in the foot by refusing to serve a huge market? I mean who cares if some small time Irish airline doesn't want to come here? It's not like they're the only way to get to Ireland (assuming you'd want to go there).
 
*fingers in ears* Nah nah nah nah, guns are bad, guns kill people, we don't need inflight security, nah nah nah nah...

If 9/11 can't wake people up, quite literally nothing will.
 
I have to say that, my general tolerance for foreigners' wierdness aside, this is just a stunningly stupid point of view.

"The fewer guns there are, the safer the situation is."

Apparently these dim bulbs are taking security advice from Pippin in The Two Towers. "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."

:rolleyes:

Bearing in mind that Pippin was the dumbest Hobbit of the lot, and of course a short, hairy-footed drunk. So I guess the Belgians would relate to that. :D

Let's see... we get to choose between:

a. Terrorists armed on the plane, or
b. Terrorist armed on the plane AND anti-terrorists armed on the plane.

Gee, tough call. :rolleyes:
 
Best line from Roadkill Coyote's link:

A 747 captain, David Lonsdale (presumably not with BA) commented: "[BALPO] adopts the standard liberal-Left stance that disarming law-abiding citizens makes us all safer. It is a view that must delight the terrorist."


"A View That Must Delight the Terrorist"
By Val MacQueen Published 01/09/2004


Despite the jaw-dropping magnitude of what the Americans have achieved in Iraq, including winning an entire war in a few weeks and ferreting one tiny fugitive out of the vast desert wastes, there is still a substantial segment in Britain and Europe staying alert for Vietnam-style quagmires and Yankee ineptitude. Americans are so simple minded. They don't understand the big picture like we do -- although it's hard to conceive of a bigger landscape than the geopolitics of the entire Middle East that George Bush is determined to modify.

Our teeth ache with boredom at the dirges from Guardian readers, listeners to the BBC and barstool foreign policy advisors, accompanied by the keening of a bagpipe, aka the Archbishop of Canterbury, but it was disturbing to note last week that an organization that, above all others, one would have hoped was calm and rational, had joined the yapping and ankle-snapping pack.

When the Americans called for the presence of sky marshals on sensitive flights to the US, BALPO, the British Airline Pilots' union was beside itself with scorn. It barely knew where to begin, so mighty was its disdain. Americans are such cowboys, you know -- always seeking radical and imaginative solutions that actually work. The union even went so far as to advise pilots that they would be within their rights to refuse to take off if an air marshal was on board. A senior manager of BA, which operates around 50 flights a day to the US, said: "The plan came right out of the blue and we want to know why the Government did not tell us about it sooner." (How about, it was in response to an emergency? As in, one British Airways flight was detained at Dulles for three hours before passengers were allowed to disembark, and another, BA 223, was canceled three days in a row because Al-Qaeda seemed to be "chattering" about it?)


An official of Virgin Airlines, the second biggest UK carrier to the US, described America's demands as "laughable" according to London's Daily Telegraph. Wounded pride? Ignorance about practices in their own industry -- as in, the US has had sky marshals on board some domestic flights for almost 30 years -- since the heyday of the skyjacker. They seem equally unaware that El-Al has routinely had sky marshals on board its flights for years.

Naively, British pilots appear to think they have astutely detected a flaw in the whole sky martial concept: Having an armed person in the cabin could be dangerous. Well, well, fancy that. (So could having an armed terrorist in the cabin, of course.)

Meanwhile, Air France pilots were aggrieved to learn that since a few days before the Americans issued their emergency directive, their own government had been putting civilian clad elite gendarmes (gendarmes are an arm of the military; not the police) on some French flights without even telling them.

Pacific, not to say soporific Sweden, it comes as no surprise to learn, has refused requests to put armed police on its commercial flights to and from the United States, saying it has an alternative agreement with U.S. transportation authorities, although it's hard to imagine what that might be. Perhaps an agreement to urge a plate of Swedish food on the terrorists? Could work.

For the record, plucky little Denmark and plucky little Portugal have signed on to the "Americans-are-such-cowboys" gang. The word's still out on plucky little Belgium

Most outrageous, though, is the surly attitude of the pilots of America's chief ally, who place resentment of trespass on their turf above security considerations, although they cloak their anger in "concerns for passenger safety." According to The Telegraph, "Airline managers, supported by their pilots, believe that routine use of marshals would become a security liability. Potential terrorists would know that guns were in the cabin and seek to obtain them by overpowering marshals rather than the more complex task of smuggling their own weapons on board." How a terrorist is going to identify a sky marshal who is in mufti, and who is presumably not just a good shot but trained in the martial arts, and then overpower him is not addressed.

This clinging to the notion, despite the historic abundance of evidence to the contrary, that Americans keep stumbling across new technology and effective procedures by mistake rather than sheer brain power and determination, is baffling.

BALPO general secretary Jim McAuslan said: "We remain opposed to the whole concept of bringing sky marshal guns on board an aircraft as this will not make flights more safe." Despite 30 years of experience to the contrary?

London's Observer obtained a leaked copy of a memo written by BA's Operations Director Mike Street, which says that BA will not operate a single flight unless it is satisfied that it is totally safe to do so. The memo goes on to say: "'If there is security information about a particular flight that gives us cause for concern, then we will not operate that flight. That remains our policy regardless of the Government's capability to deploy armed police officers." My goodness, how those British airline pilots do chatter!

Now they're back at the negotiating table and reports seem to confirm that the pilots' chief concern is not passenger safety but loss of prestige. Foremost among demands is that the pilot be in charge at all times, and that the sky marshal onboard make himself known to the pilot and the flight crew. This will come in handy for any members of the cabin crew who are in cahoots with a terrorist.

The daftest demand, raw with wounded pride, is that the sky marshal be in touch with the captain throughout the flight. Thus a sky marshal clad as a civilian passenger, scurrying back and forth to the cockpit during the flight, or talking furtively into a walkie-talkie would not be too conspicuous.

A 747 captain, David Lonsdale (presumably not with BA) commented: "[BALPO] adopts the standard liberal-Left stance that disarming law-abiding citizens makes us all safer. It is a view that must delight the terrorist." Quite. He also notes that "The Americans have authorised a level of defense that the British Government has so far rejected." Yet, BALPO, BA, Virgin Airlines and Thomas Cook Airlines (which flies to Florida) have apparently failed to make the connection that unarmed British flights are now being targeted by terrorists precisely because the Americans have made their own inflight security so efficient.

As always, the laconic Aussies, who, like Americans, continue to seek robust, practical solutions, have, according to Singapore's The Straits Times, not only been quietly placing armed marshals on some Aussie flights for some time, but have even developed special bullets to be used aboard aircraft. Says The Straits Times report: "The bullets break up on impact with solid objects and will not pierce the plane's skin if fired at the fuselage. And bullet fragments will not put people near the point of impact at risk by ricocheting around the cabin."

As always, the Poles came through on the side of practicality, common sense and loyalty. Their airline LOT is cooperating with US authorities.

In any event, where Britain would find suitable sky marshal applicants with practical weapons experience is a moot point as the British government outlawed the private ownership of any handgun six years ago. Even crack shots participating in Olympics events have to find time and money to travel to France just to practice. I would say that the Brits shot themselves in the foot over this one, although, with handguns strictly banned, it would have to have been with a bow and arrow.
 
Bravo! A journalist who thinks the Americans have done a few things right? What a refreshing point of view!
 
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