Bench holds to magnum rifles.

[Bayourambler]

I just recently started shooting for fun. I've been shooting since I'm a kid , but just to sight in and hunt. As I became more comfortable shooting the big guns off of sandbags , I have become sloppy in my shooting . I bought a shoulder recoil pad and it is wonderful! I can shoot 300 wm 40-50 shots in a day without any effects . The problem with that is I found myself shooting pretty much free recoil and now my groups are opening up. I have to teach myself to hold that rifle to keep the gun from jumping so much. I wouldn't have thought it , but the barrel must move before the bullet actually comes out!! I'm experimenting with putting i lil pressure on my shoulder and resting my left hand on top on the scope , on top of the forward scope ring. It's getting better. Any tips out there?

 

[jmar]

You don't need to have a second hand on the gun, snipers and bench shooters usually have their offhand on a sandbag under the toe. Other than that i can't help you out as i'm a beginner also. Maybe your rifle is to light and not contoured for sand bag shooting.

 

[someguy2800]

I've found with a light gun you need to have a good grip with your trigger hand to keep the gun from twisting in the opposite direction as the rifling, and needs to have some tension against your shoulder. I have tried resting my hand on top of the scope on a bucky gun and also putting my hand or just a couple fingers across the barrel just in front of the scope and it can help to control the gun but never seen it help accuracy vs just making sure its held into your shoulder and having a tight grip

 

[243winxb]

300 wm

resting my left hand on top on the scope , on top of the forward scope ring.

Some scopes will flex , changing the point of bullet impact, if holding on the front of the scope.

Better to hold on the bottom of the forearm, right behind the front bag/ rest. The elbow should be resting on the bench for support. Think of your hand as a weight just hanging there. This keeps the rifle from bouncing up wards on firing, off the front bag.

With the butt stock snug into your shoulder, let the recoil push you back. Dont fight it. Ride with the recoil.

 

[jmr40]

I can shoot 300 wm 40-50 shots in a day without any effects .

No you can't, you only think you can. That much recoil and muzzle blast is having an effect on you even if you don't realize it. Impact velocity is the key, not muzzle velocity. This is exactly why the military is looking at replacing 300 WM with 6.5 Creedmoor. At 700 or more yards the 6.5 hits with more energy and shoots flatter with about 35%-40% of the recoil. I don't care how tough anyone is or thinks they are, they shoot rifles with less recoil better.

I'm not opposed to any of the magnums. They have their place, and on really big game beyond 400 yards fill a niche. But if you want to shoot a LOT, you need a smaller gun. It'll not only recoil less, but will cost a lot less to feed it regardless of whether you reload or buy off the shelf.

 

[someguy2800]

It certainly takes some concentration to shoot a heavy recoiling rifle well all day.

 

[LoonWulf]

Body position can affect follow thru. If you find yourself HAVING to fight the rifle bouncing to one side or another, your position behind the gun may need to be changed a bit. Ive found i shoot better standing as i tend to position myself more consistently behind the gun than i do if im sitting at a tabel (no benches where we shoot here). So i shoot off the hood of my truck, which is lifted enough to put the rifle at exactly the right hight for me to step into.

When lacking the ability to stand Ihave to move my chair around, get up, sit down, do it again for a while before i can get properly situated.

Also on really thin forended guns like my 7mag ill often rest my hand on the front bag and hold the forend in my hand as i would if taking the shot from a field position. Ive found that both helps with muzzle jump, and to direct the rifle during recoil.....i dont tend to shoot as small groups but they are more uniform.

 

[someguy2800]

That is a good point loonwolf. Some people sit at the bench turned at an angle and leaning over to the gun. I try to sit down facing toward the target and put the gun in front of my shoulder rather than moving my body to meet the gun. That seams to help me.

 

[Sunray]

"...the barrel must move before the bullet..." Nope. Bullet's gone before recoil starts. Only by microseconds, but gone just the same.
"...No you can't, you only think you can..." Agreed. Kind of like to see the attempt though. snicker.
"...hold that rifle to keep the gun from jumping..." You can't do that either. A .300 Win Mag with a 180 grain bullet at 2960 fps recoils with 25.9 ft-lbs. of energy out of an 8.5 pound rifle. You won't be holding that still with your mitt on the scope.
A softer sand bag with the rifle slightly down into it and how you're sitting can help. You want to have your body places so it absorbs some of the recoil just like it does when standing. You also want the rifle pulled tight into your shoulder. Mind you, this whole thing is exactly why magnums aren't fun and why most magnum owners don't shoot 'em regularly.
"...hand on top of the scope..." Reintroduces the human factor shooting from a bench rest is supposed to eliminate.

 

[someguy2800]

A gun does move while the bullet is still in the barrel as the laws of physics says it must. It's a very small amount but multiplied over distance becomes significant. For example if the muzzle of a 36" long gun rises by .010" that is a 1 inch change in trajectory at 100 yards.

 

[MCMXI]

The problem with that is I found myself shooting pretty much free recoil and now my groups are opening up

Heavy rifles typically shoot best using the free recoil technique, but lighter rifles need to be held securely. The objective is consistency, and free recoiling a light rifle won't be consistent, particularly for the more powerful cartridges. Like you I enjoy shooting magnum cartridges such as .300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua Mag and .375 H&H Mag. I shot an 88 round F-Class match in Hawaii using a custom .300 Win Mag wearing a t-shirt and had no problem at all. The rifle, scope, magazine and bipod weighed a little under 18lb but I wouldn't want to do that with a lightweight hunting rifle. I can shoot 100+ rounds in a day from my AIs chambered in .300 Win Mag or .338 Lapua Mag but they're around 20 lb with scopes, suppressors and bipods and are comfortable to shoot. My 9lb .375 H&H (rifle, scope and sling) is more of a challenge but I shot 50 rounds in a day when doing the initial load development. I wore a sissy pad and shot prone and by the time I was done I felt like I'd just finished 80 mins of rugby, but it was fun.

Impact velocity is the key, not muzzle velocity. This is exactly why the military is looking at replacing 300 WM with 6.5 Creedmoor. At 700 or more yards the 6.5 hits with more energy and shoots flatter with about 35%-40% of the recoil.

Obviously the 6.5 Creedmoor has less recoil but I'm not sure where you're getting your data re velocity, energy and bullet drop. If you compare the heaviest 6.5 Creedmoor load i.e. the 143gr ELD-X to say the .300 Win Mag 200gr ELD-X load, both from Hornady, the .300 Win Mag load which is not the heaviest for caliber has more velocity and energy everywhere with 34" less drop at 1,000 yards. Hornady lists the MV as 2,700 fps for the 143gr load but that's from a 24" barrel. My AI with a 24" barrel spits out the 140gr ELD load at 2,700 fps so Hornady is very close on that. They list the .300 Win Mag MV as 2,860 fps also from a 24" barrel. Considering that most hunting rifles chambered in 6.5 CM have 22" barrels and that most hunting rifles chambered in .300 Win Mag have 26" barrels, the real-world velocity and energy numbers are likely to be even further apart. If you're talking handloads, I shoot a 140gr A-MAX or ELD at 2,850 fps (suppressed) and shoot 208gr and 250gr bullets from my .300 Win Mag and .338 Lapua Mag rifles with just about the same MV, so once again, the 6.5 CM even when pushed hard won't compete with the .300 Win Mag and certainly not with the .338 Lapua Mag.

600Y - (6.5 CM) 1906 fps/1153 ft-lb .... (.300 WM) 2004 fps/1783 ft-lb
700Y - (6.5 CM) 1789 fps/1016 ft-lb .... (.300 WM) 1878 fps/1567 ft-lb
800Y - (6.5 CM) 1677 fps/893 ft-lb .... (.300 WM) 1758 fps/1372 ft-lb
900Y - (6.5 CM) 1572 fps/784 ft-lb .... (.300 WM) 1643 fps/1198 ft-lb
1,000Y - (6.5 CM) 1473 fps/689 ft-lb .... (.300 WM) 1535 fps/1047 ft-lb

I don't care how tough anyone is or thinks they are, they shoot rifles with less recoil better.

I don't, and I don't think shooting magnums is about being tough or a hard case. I shoot everything about the same because I practice with whatever rifle I use for a given application. I've shot numerous sub 1/2 moa 5 to 8 shot groups at 400 yards with my AI AWM chambered in .338 Lapua Mag and have done the same with my AI AW chambered in .308 Win and 6.5 Creedmoor. I don't see any significant difference in group size among the three at 400 yards but if you want to talk about target reaction on impact ... the .338 Lapua Mag is a beast!!!

Once I worked up a load for my .375 H&H it's very consistent with 5-shot groups like the one shown below. I can't do any better with any other hunting rifle that I have in the 6-1/2lb to 9lb range regardless of what they're chambered in.

 

[243winxb]

rest my hand on the front bag and hold the forend in my hand

This works well for me shooting Remington 760 & 7600 pump action rifles.

 

[Bart B.]

People have been shooting 9 to 12 pound 300 WM's 40 to 50 rounds a day in long range prone matches without discomfort. Testing them for accuracy slung up in prone shooting 30 to 40 shots in 25 minutes is not discomforting.

Here's exterior ballistics with a 700 yard zero for the 6.5 Creedmore and 300 Win Mag with 24 inch barrels at SAAMI spec velocity and pressure. Drop delta in inches is elevation group spread caused by a 50 fps velocity spread.

. Bullet's gone before recoil starts. Only by microseconds, but gone just the same.

I think you've made that comment before. Please explain your reasoning without countering any laws of physics.

If barrels don't move during barrel time, then it wouldn't matter if the barreled action was bedded in any way or not. And all these web site's data regarding that are false:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...GcjgjwPU8b_wDg&start=10&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=728

Even side by side double barrel rifle front sights are higher above bore axes than rear ones. And their bore axes toe in several MOA crossing several yards down range.