Beretta 92fs - internal mechanics

[son-of-a-gun]

hello community,

as an investigative journalist in research of a book script I would need some advice on the internals of beretta 92fs.

The basic situation is:

weapon has been fired (6 rounds)

now chamber loaded again

8 rounds remain in magazine

weapon is ready to fire

hammer is fully-cocked


Question:

What (EXCEPT OF decocking by thumb) could cause the hammer to fall to half-cocked notch?

Can it happen if the weapon falls to ground? If yes - how can one describe that mechanically and would something internal get broken (sear, trigger bar)?

Would the weapon still be functionable afterwards?

I tried to get answers to these questions in some boards now here and there but there were no consistent answers.

Thanks for your answers. Looking forward to them.

 

[earlthegoat2]

The full cock hammer notch would have to be broken. THat is the short answer. The trigger bar would have to remain intact. I have seen Beretta hammers that do not even have a half cock notch as well. Depending on the variant of Beretta there could be several hammer designs. Modern Berettas have a firing pin block and some believe they do not need a half cock hammer design with that firing pin block. The weapon would not be functional without the full cock notch intact as the hammer could never reach the fully cocked position with out the full cock notch.

It "can" happen if the weapon falls to the ground. Unlikely though. It "can" also happen if the weapon does not fall to the ground or is even sitting on a table undistrubed.

In the real world though this would be a very unlikely scenario. So if the novel is going to be real to life then I would omit it completely because it is just too unlikely. However, there is plenty of entertaining media out there that is niether realistic or likely that still is fine entertainment.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I would essentially agree with what earlthegoat2 said though I do wonder if a 92 broken in that fashion would still fire "double action only" or not, or if it would go "full auto" and dump the remaining 8 rounds from the mag if the trigger were pulled (though probably not due to the firing pin interrupter).

I also agree that this would be an -extremely- unlikely scenario unless someone had been tampering with the firearm ahead of time.

 

[Jim K]

The standard 92 (M9) does not have a half cock notch. It has what is sometimes called a "shelf" in the hammer. If the gun is dropped with the hammer cocked, the sear can be jarred out of engagement with the full cock notch and the hammer will fall. But before the hammer can fall far enough to strike the firing pin, the sear spring reasserts itself, the hammer is stopped by the sear engaging the "shelf" and the gun does not fire. At the same time, with nothing pressing on the trigger, the trigger spring will move the trigger and sear bar forward. That will allow the safety bar in the slide to move down and block the firing pin.

So if the question is whether dropping the cocked gun could cause the hammer to fall to the half cock "shelf", the answer is yes. Could the gun fire under that condition? The answer has to be "NO" unless someone has tampered with the gun or there are simultaneous failures of several systems. Most modern firearms are designed to be "drop safe"; when I see a mention in the press of a modern gun that fired when dropped, I suspect that something is not being told. Sometimes such an "accident" is a convenient lie to cover up a shooting that no one wants to discuss publicly.

Jim

 

[rcmodel]

Jim K. is exactly right.

Another way to look at it is?
Would the U.S. military adopt the gun, and continue to use it for 17 years:
A. If it could conceivably go off all by itself when dropped?

B. Or even if it broke and became disabled when dropped?

Of course not.

Just isn't gonna happen, unless somebody figured out a way to disable several redundant safety systems all at the same time.

rc

 

[son-of-a-gun]

hello guys,

thanks for your input. Specially earlthegoat2. That was very clear.

@jim k:

It's about the FS model which - as far as I know - has the half-cock-notch.
Anyway:

If the gun is dropped with the hammer cocked, the sear can be jarred out of engagement with the full cock notch and the hammer will fall.

would this mean - as earlthegoat stated above - that the notch gets broken leaving the weapon unfunctionable afterwards?
Is that what you meant when writing:

Could the gun fire under that condition? The answer has to be "NO"

have a nice day everyone.

 

[Drail]

It must be a great design if the U.S. military adopted it, right? Oh, please.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I believe the FS model also has a "shelf" in its hammer design. So what Jim K posted above still stands.

The Beretta 92 is a great gun despite what the conventional wisdom will try to ram down your throat. It is very safe and would have a next to nil chance of firing if dropped. The firing pin block safety as well as the half cock notch/shelf are redundant safety mechanisms that would both have to fail for a discharge to occur.

To answer your question:

would this mean - as earlthegoat stated above - that the notch gets broken leaving the weapon unfunctionable afterward.

If the full cock notch gets broken the gun will not fire and cannot be fired unless you were to manually pull the hammer all the way back and hold it there and then pull the trigger all the way back and hold it and then release the hammer. You would then no doubt get a handful of recoiling slide back into your hand and that would render the user unable to function any handgun for a length of time.

To add to this some would speculate that without a full cock notch the gun would become full auto. This is not the case though because of the disconnect device inherent in the design that does not allow the gun to fire again unless the trigger is reset.

As to whether the gun could fire from the half cock notch or shelf, the design precludes this from happening altogether. The trigger could be pulled but nothing would happen.

 

[son-of-a-gun]

Thank you guys for all that great answers.

You`ve been of great help to me.

The very thankful

son-of-a-gun