With the boat load of aftermarket companies out there, I can't for the life of me understand why no one has come up with some sort of extended safety lever for it. I carry mine either with the safety on, or with the safety off and the hammer back at the half cock notch thing. When the hammer is in that half cock thing, it's much harder to actuate the safety.
Beretta 92FS: The Gun I'd Love to Hate....
- Thread starter SharpsDressedMan
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BSA1
member
It's not a jam they are talking about, and the open slide is not part of the issue. The issue is you could engage the safety during a slide rack. When you go to pull the trigger, nothing will happen because the safety is engaged.
When conducting a tap-rack-bang drill, the slide mounted safety can be activated during the "rack" portion of the drill. The extra step would be to sweep up on the safety to ensure it is not activated.
Ok, I was thinking more of stovepipe malfunction drill. So any semi-auto with a slide mounted safety could have this "problem" not just the Beretta. It seems to me that all semi-autos can jam as a result of user induced improper technique.
Alas like OregonJohnny my dang 92 is so reliable I have never had the opportunity to practice malfunction drills.
When conducting a tap-rack-bang drill, the slide mounted safety can be activated during the "rack" portion of the drill. The extra step would be to sweep up on the safety to ensure it is not activated.
Ok, I was thinking more of stovepipe malfunction drill. So any semi-auto with a slide mounted safety could have this "problem" not just the Beretta. It seems to me that all semi-autos can jam as a result of user induced improper technique.
Alas like OregonJohnny my dang 92 is so reliable I have never had the opportunity to practice malfunction drills.
BSA1
member
Induce malfunctions. Load a snap cap or expended shell in various locations within the mag. Everyone should be extremely proficient in clearing jams with their Self Defense weapon of choice..
Or they could use high quality ammunition, make common sense tune-ups and shoot the gun enough to know it is reliable. Do you induce jams in your revolver?
Or they could use high quality ammunition, make common sense tune-ups and shoot the gun enough to know it is reliable. Do you induce jams in your revolver?
I think tarosean's point is to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. I agree with him completely. If God forbid you ever have to use it in a defensive situation, AND it happens to have a jam, you'll want your reaction to be second nature.
astra600
Member
I've always wanted a stainless PT92, ala Walker -Texas Ranger. It looks so right on the belt. I've passed them up in stores for decades because of the slide mounted safety. My P38 has one too, but the gun is more svelt and I don't use it much. I do have a model 1934 Beretta in .380. Fun to shoot, but a 180* safety lever.
Phaedrus/69
Member
The slide mounted safety is the kiss of death for me; zero chance that I'd ever carry one. And I have little use for a handgun that I can't carry. It's a pretty bulky gun for a 9mm, too. Probably a good range gun but I don't have much use for a 9mm range-only gun.
However, all of that is just my personal preference. The gun is well known for reliability and it's a good shooter. If you like the user interface it's a good firearm.
However, all of that is just my personal preference. The gun is well known for reliability and it's a good shooter. If you like the user interface it's a good firearm.
I agree %100.
Not sure why Beretta moved away from the frame mounted safety.
I don't use the safety on my M-9 but the location on the Taurus "is" superior.
Isn't the frame mounted safety just a safety and not a decocker? IIRC, one o f the things the military wanted in the competition to replace the 1911 was a decocker, hence the slide mounted device.
I had a Browning BDA and Beretta 9000 with that type safety/decocker, and it was fine when it was the only type I had. Than I got a Tomcat and a HiPower and a 1911, and having guns with safeties going in different directions made no sense to me. I also decided I hated DA/SA triggers, so they had to go. The 92 may be a great gun, but I'd never own one for those two reasons.
Potatohead
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I understand be prepared and whatnot, but it ain't that hard to tap and rack. It's not like you have to work a puzzle. How much practice does it take? Im really not trying to be a smartA--, I just wonder about this sometimes, how much time to devote to it.
I can't say how much practice it takes, but I believe that when the poop hits the fan, you don't rise to the occasion, but rather fall to the level of your training. If you don't train on tap-rack drills, you still may do it if you have to, but your reaction time could be very slow compared to if you do it a few times each range session.
Schwing
Member
Not to beat a dead horse here but... If you spend that much time practicing tap and rack exercises and are still somehow flipping the safety on, what is the point of continuing the exercises? If I had that problem with any gun, I wouldn't carry it either.
I went home last night and pulled out my 92 for giggles. I can actually admit that I see how this could happen. I have just never had it happen and don't see how you would do this unless you are gripping the slide with you fingers right over the safety... I know Mel Gibson never had this problem either
I think the bottom line is, however, you gotta be 100% comfortable with what you carry. I think that is one of the reasons why most of us have a safe full of guns. Personally, in a way, I hope I never find the 100% perfect gun because my excuses to keep buying are kind of stalled at that point.
I went home last night and pulled out my 92 for giggles. I can actually admit that I see how this could happen. I have just never had it happen and don't see how you would do this unless you are gripping the slide with you fingers right over the safety... I know Mel Gibson never had this problem either
I think the bottom line is, however, you gotta be 100% comfortable with what you carry. I think that is one of the reasons why most of us have a safe full of guns. Personally, in a way, I hope I never find the 100% perfect gun because my excuses to keep buying are kind of stalled at that point.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Now some guys will not approve of this solution, but if you can find a Beretta 92D slide and put it on a Beretta 92FS, etc, then your gun will have NO safety at all. You MUST lower the hammer carefully to the DA (down) position. This is no different than doing the same to a CZ75 (standard version, not with a decocker). It CAN be done safely, and then you would have a ready to go, DA auto, no safety (much like every DA revolver we have used for years), with no junk on the slide to screw you up. Draw and fire. Gun is loaded and dangerous (as they should be; it's not a toy, right?). Plus, a slick sided slide on a Beretta 92 looks kind of nice. Not for the weak of heart, or liability obsessed.
OregonJohnny
Member
An even better solution, IMO, is the slide from a 92G - which has a decock-only lever. It is spring loaded to flip back up to the fire position after it decocks. Unfortunately, you cannot interchange the parts from the 92G safety with a standard M9/92 slide. I really wish Beretta would offer the G models again, or at least some sort of retrofit kit that will turn your standard 92 slide into a G decock-only configuration. My "perfect" Beretta would be the 92G-SD, which also had the frame rail. Essentially, it's an M9A1 frame with a 92G slide. It was only made for about 4 or 5 years, and they are nearly impossible to find.
HisStigness
Member
I think the problem is they introduced too many models of the gun to begin with. Glock sells all their guns with no safety, and if you don't like it you can buy from somebody else. Beretta should have introduced 2 models: one "service model" with the safety/decock lever that is set to the fire position by racking the slide, and the other with no safety or decock lever at all.
JTQ
Member
I over looked this one.
As several others have posted, most people will use the safety/decocker on a Beretta 92FS simply as a decocker. Most will not carry the pistol with the safety engaged unless required to by their employer. With that in mind, there is no need for an extended safety lever. Actually, I think they offer a more compact safety lever, so it stays out of the way better.
The guys that really know the Beretta will have to answer whether or not it is designed to be used with the hammer in the half cock and the safety on. I'd think not, which is probably why you have difficulty doing so.
BSA1
member
Tarosean says “Induce malfunctions. Load a snap cap or expended shell in various locations within the mag. Everyone should be extremely proficient in clearing jams with their Self Defense weapon of choice.”
Along with ipsharps88 who chimes in with “I think tarosean's point is to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. I agree with him completely. If God forbid you ever have to use it in a defensive situation, AND it happens to have a jam, you'll want your reaction to be second nature.”
So both of you gentlemen want me to take a weaspon that is proven to be 100% reliable and deliberately cause it to malfunction so they I can practice correcting the problems I caused.
Which bring me back to my question do you induce failures in your revolvers and what kinds?
Along with ipsharps88 who chimes in with “I think tarosean's point is to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. I agree with him completely. If God forbid you ever have to use it in a defensive situation, AND it happens to have a jam, you'll want your reaction to be second nature.”
So both of you gentlemen want me to take a weaspon that is proven to be 100% reliable and deliberately cause it to malfunction so they I can practice correcting the problems I caused.
Which bring me back to my question do you induce failures in your revolvers and what kinds?
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BSA1
member
The slide mounted safety is the kiss of death for me; zero chance that I'd ever carry one. And I have little use for a handgun that I can't carry. It's a pretty bulky gun for a 9mm, too. Probably a good range gun but I don't have much use for a 9mm range-only gun.
Well it has being pointed out that there are other versions of the 92 w/o the slide mounted safety and it seems to be going a pretty good job on the ranges in Iraq and Afghanistan
Well it has being pointed out that there are other versions of the 92 w/o the slide mounted safety and it seems to be going a pretty good job on the ranges in Iraq and Afghanistan
You can do what you want. But for me, I do deliberately cause a malfunction in order to practice clearing them. The idea behind it is to make it second nature in the event that you need to in a life or death situation. Just because your weapon has been 100% so far, does NOT mean it will be when it really matters.
To answer your question, I do not own, or shoot revolvers, so I don't.
BUT, when I go shooting my Glock or Beretta, I will do things such as load a round in the chamber, then deliberately unseat the mag just enough so the next round won't feed, load spent casings in the mag so I get a click without a boom, put a shell case in the slide to simulate a stovepipe, and intentionally cause a double feed/failure to extract.
See this video, has some good info
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfyULpEhmug
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I'll NEVER understand why so few people around here dislike the 92. Its a great gun. Big? Heavy? Its intended to be a service gun, not a compact. Leveling this complaint against it is like complaining that a minivan isn't as nimble as a sports car. The 92 is comparable in size and weight to the other guns in its class, like the CZ75, Sig, etc...
Its a great gun. For $600, you get excellent build quality, the smoothest slide in the business, a durable finish, easy followup shots, a movie star, and possibly the most thoroughly tested handgun in history. Its hard to top the 92.
Its a great gun. For $600, you get excellent build quality, the smoothest slide in the business, a durable finish, easy followup shots, a movie star, and possibly the most thoroughly tested handgun in history. Its hard to top the 92.
BSA1
member
lbsharp88,
What ever gave you the idea that I don't know how to clear malfunctions in the semi-automatic handguns?
What I said is my Beretta 92FS is so reliable that it has never jammed. Therefore I don’t any purpose in deliberately causing malfunctions. But in fairness to you I should point out that my expectations for a combat handgun is considerability higher yours. For starters my Beretta has been tuned by one of the top gunsmiths in the nation, Teddy Jacobson. Teddy understands that LEO firearms must go bang every time the trigger is pulled with no excuses.
Second is I have carefully inspected all of my magazines and have replaced the magazine springs with extra power ones from Wolff.
Third is I require all of my semi-automatics to function perfectly with 500 rounds of the ammunition I am carrying. No, really 500 rounds with no failures unless I know I induced the error or know the round to be defective. Otherwise if the gun chokes the ammo test starts all over. Expensive yep, but I know that my gun will not fail me.
The only thing is this gun feeds and shoots everything I have fed it including ammo that has choked in other guns.
You seem to have accepted the idea that a semi-automatic handgun can not be reliable all the time with good quality magazines and high quality ammunition. I started my career carrying revolvers which have always functioned fine. The only exception I had any problems with my revolvers was when my department brought cheap reloaded ammo. Why should I expect any less of a standard with a semi-automatic?
Those so-called training videos are fun entertainment but they in no way replace spending time on the range shooting the ammunition you plan on carrying in your carry / self defense piece. If your Beretta does not measure up to mine send you gun to Teddy, get good quality magazines and you will be singing praises after he gets done with it.
I would also encourage you to broaden your shooting horizons and confidence in their reliability by getting a good quality revolver.
http://www.actionsbyt.com/
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto Pistols/cID1
What ever gave you the idea that I don't know how to clear malfunctions in the semi-automatic handguns?
What I said is my Beretta 92FS is so reliable that it has never jammed. Therefore I don’t any purpose in deliberately causing malfunctions. But in fairness to you I should point out that my expectations for a combat handgun is considerability higher yours. For starters my Beretta has been tuned by one of the top gunsmiths in the nation, Teddy Jacobson. Teddy understands that LEO firearms must go bang every time the trigger is pulled with no excuses.
Second is I have carefully inspected all of my magazines and have replaced the magazine springs with extra power ones from Wolff.
Third is I require all of my semi-automatics to function perfectly with 500 rounds of the ammunition I am carrying. No, really 500 rounds with no failures unless I know I induced the error or know the round to be defective. Otherwise if the gun chokes the ammo test starts all over. Expensive yep, but I know that my gun will not fail me.
The only thing is this gun feeds and shoots everything I have fed it including ammo that has choked in other guns.
You seem to have accepted the idea that a semi-automatic handgun can not be reliable all the time with good quality magazines and high quality ammunition. I started my career carrying revolvers which have always functioned fine. The only exception I had any problems with my revolvers was when my department brought cheap reloaded ammo. Why should I expect any less of a standard with a semi-automatic?
Those so-called training videos are fun entertainment but they in no way replace spending time on the range shooting the ammunition you plan on carrying in your carry / self defense piece. If your Beretta does not measure up to mine send you gun to Teddy, get good quality magazines and you will be singing praises after he gets done with it.
I would also encourage you to broaden your shooting horizons and confidence in their reliability by getting a good quality revolver.
http://www.actionsbyt.com/
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto Pistols/cID1
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Ok, here we go
My Beretta measures up to yours, so far, and it has not been to Teddy. Only thing done to it was I installed the D spring, and switched the safety around to better accommodate my left handedness.
I never said that, just said that practicing clearing them is a good idea. I assume that anyone who owns a semi auto knows how to clear a malfunction.BSA1 said:
I never stated what my expectations for a combat handgun are. But, I will now. I expect any combat/carry handgun in my possession to be 100% reliable, no matter the ammo. That being said, a handgun is a mechanical device, and anything mechanical can fail. Also, like I said earlier, hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. If I ever have to use my M9 or G26 in a defensive situation, I fully expect it to function flawlessly, but I also train as if it won't, so if it does fail, hopefully my reaction will be instant, and more importantly, correct.BSA1 said:
Once again, I never said that. Just because I state that I practice malfunction drills, and that I think it is a good idea to do so, does not mean that I don't think, or have accepted, that a semi-automatic handgun cannot be reliable. In fact, I have accepted the opposite. My Glock and Beretta have been the opposite, they have been 100% reliable, no matter what I feed them.BSA1 said:
I agree completely. You can only get so much from the internet, and nothing beats actual hands on time. I also think that just because your firearm has been 100% during your range shooting, it does not mean that it will be 100% when it really counts. So why not practice malfunction drills, even if it has been 100% so far?BSA1 said:
My Beretta measures up to yours, so far, and it has not been to Teddy. Only thing done to it was I installed the D spring, and switched the safety around to better accommodate my left handedness.
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