Berger VLD test

[snuffy]

I was selected to test some bullets for the NAHC field test. Berger has been one of the best long range target bullet companies for many years. Walt Berger came up with a design called the VLD,( Very low drag). It's a long sleek boat tail hollow point match bullet.

Walt sold the company to someone else who wants to expand the business to include hunters who handload. BUT he doesn't want to come out with an exposed lead, or plastic tipped bullet that would work well for hunting. He wants us,(the testers), to hunt with the VLD bullets.

The problem is that match hollow points can either be so fragile that they tend to fragment and not penetrate, causing a shallow wound. Or the hollow point plugs and the bullet goes straight through like a pencil, no expansion.

I'm working with my son's 7-08 Browning A-bolt synthetic stalker. Using R-P cases, federal gold medal match primers and Hodgdon Varget powder. Here's the groups I shot yesterday;

None of the groups were really bad as far as shape or size goes, a few were over an inch. I was running them over my Pact chronograph so I could keep track of the velocities. It has the ability to do extreme spreads,(ES), high, low, and a statistical tool called SD, or standard deviation. The better the ES, the better the long range accuracy will be. The best group came with 37.0 grains of varget, it also had the lowest extreme spread of all the powder charge levels. 10.7 feet per second for five shots! It SHOULD be very accurate at longer distances, which I will find out in a few days.

What I did was look up what charge levels were recommended for Sierra match kings of the same weight. They are very similar to the Berger bullets. I then started out at the recommended starting load and went up in 2.0 grain increments to 35.0 grains. Then I went up in 1.0 gr increments to my max level of 38.0. Sierra said I could go up to 39.8, but max charges are seldom the most accurate, and why strain the rifle? Also Sierra's rifle used to test those rounds was a Savage with a 26" tube. My boy's rifle has an 18 inch bbl, so the velocities I got were quite a bit lower. 38.0 grains was supposed to do 2500 fps, I only got 2390 fps!

31.0 av 1947 fps ES 67.3 SD 25.7
33.0 av 2077 31.3 12.6
35.0 av 2204 22.4 8.4
36.0 av 2294 81.9 30.2
37.0 av 2333 10.7 4.3
38.0 av 2390 24.8 10.1

It can be seen that the "sweet spot" is at 37.0 in this particular load combination.

 

[SwampFox]

If you e-mail Berger they will send you a list of powder recomendations based on the bullet, twist rate, barrel length and cartridge you are shooting.

I've been working with the 210 VLDs in a 300 WSM and the 105 VLDs in .243 Winchester.

I can post target pics and velocities if you need them.

I intend to try them on deer this fall.

 

[snuffy]

Thanks SF, I just may do that.

I forgot to post that the 37.0 load, the group size is .665. Also the rifle is equipped with a boss, but it has been set in one place and left the heck alone! I bought it for my son's 14th birthday, that was before they supplied them with both the muzzle break and CR boss. I ordered a CR boss, which is MUCH quieter.

210 VLD in a 300 WSM? Don't you know the conventional wisdom is that the wissums can't handle the heavier bullets? I thought that was BS also, so I loaded some 220 match kings in my Browning 300 WSM. Excellent accuracy at respectable velocities. I can post a scanned target for those too.

I'm toying with the idea of getting the bullet test tube. I'd like to see how the VLD does for CONTROLLED expansion.
http://www.thebullettesttube.com/index/home.html
Other bullets as well, I have used waterfilled milk jugs in the past, but water is a little hard on bullets, and you have no idea of what the wound channel looks like or really how far the bullet actually penetrated.

 

[SwampFox]

My accuracy load is clocking in at 2960. I've pushed them to 3100 without pressure signs. May try to find the next higher accuracy node this fall.

 

[EricStecker]

Clarification from Berger Bullets

Snuffy,

I really appreciate your being a part of the testing of Berger Bullets for the NAHC. I read your post and wanted to clarify a few details.

Walt sold the company for the purpose of combining Berger's knowledge of how to make bullets with a large, high tech manufacturer (who was making the J4 bullet jacket) so that we could develop machines that would produce more bullets. The number one complaint we have received throughout the years is lack of availability.

For several years we worked on our own "hunting" bullet. We tried everything from bonding to core locking. We even put smaller bullets inside the jackets of larger bullets. The one thing that we could not achieve that we also insisted on was accuracy. We eventually gave up on the idea of producing a "hunting" bullet.

During the 2004 SHOT Show we were approached by The Best of the West which is a hunting TV show on cable. They asked us if we would like to sponsor their TV show. We told them that we do not make a hunting bullets and they replied "oh yes you do." They produced a small DVD player and played a video showing many animals being taken at short and long range. They had been using our Berger VLD bullets for years with great success.

One of the first things Walt (who is still very involved with the company and my grandfather-in-law) noticed is that most of the animals (from antelope to elk) were dropping when they were hit. A few others would run fifty feet or less then drop.

What we have learned is that the VLD bullet using its sharp nose penetrates through the initial 2" to 3" of tissue (including bone). After it penetratres into the animal it expands shedding 80% to 90% of its weight. These pieces of shrapnel create a devastating wound channel deep inside the animal's vital area. The result is an animal that drops and/or bleeds out very quickly.

Bullets that maintain their weight create wound channels that are the result of blunt trauma which is like hitting the inside of the animal with a hammer. Our bullets act more like a grenade creating a massive amount of tissue damage and hemraging deep inside the animal.

They are in fact our same match grade bullets used by competition target shooters around the world. The difference between our match grade bullets and others is the VLD nose profile which results in deep initial penetration. Also, since the J4 jacket is tapered at the mouth you still get expansion on long shots (elk have been taken with our bullets at 900+ yards).

I hope you try our bullets and expect that you will find out like many other hunters that Berger VLDs give you the result you want, great shot placement due to accuracy and an animal that falls quickly due to terminal performance.

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Berger Bullets

 

[Brian Williams]

Thanks for the info eric, and welcome to THR

What kind of loading info do you have for 7mm-08 with 4064 and 150 or 160 gr

 

[snuffy]

Many thanks

I too want to thank you for that very informative post. It makes a difference to KNOW the facts. I'm glad that Walt is still envolved directly with making the bullets.

I'll be real honest, what concerns me with a bullet that fragments inside an animal results in a lot of lead/copper tainted meat. Now I know that a well placed shot in the center of the lungs isn't going to result in much contamination, but how many of us have aimed for the lungs and hit a bit too far forward? A shoulder shot may well result in a dead deer, maybe even a bang plop, but chewing on a chuck roast would result in running into copper/lead fragments.

I used Nosler ballistic tips since they first came out. The most accurate bullet I've ever used,(easiest to get good groups with). Also they killed cleanly, lots of bang/flops. BUT they fragment and deposit those fragments in the meat. Running into lead while eating is not enjoyable. I switched to the Hornady SST when it first came out. Same story, it was no better in the frag department and harder to get to shoot well. Then when the Hornady interbond came out, I tried them. Viola! 87% weight retention in water filled milk jugs meant an animal shot with them would have little or no lead from the core! Field results have been spectacular, both from my 300 WSM using the 165 IB and a nephews .280, using the 139 IB. Lots of bang flops, little or no bloodshot meat or fragments.

I can understand Berger not wanting an inferior bullet as far as accuracy goes being marketed as a hunting bullet. Your reputation has been based on supreme accuracy,(groups size), for so long that an inferior bullet could destroy that.

My son has said that he would be willing to try the VLD for his deer hunt this fall. I'm going to load some more to shoot at up to 600 yds. I will then submit my test papers to the NAHC, but will do a follow up if he hunts with them.

Also welcome the THR, this is a good place to throw out an anchor to see what info you can catch!

 

[EricStecker]

Brian,

Loading data for Berger Bullets can be acquired by sending and email that lists your cartridge and the Berger bullet you want to use to [email protected]. This is Walt Berger's direct email address. He is putting our loading manual together and can provide you with the data you need.

Snuffy,

We have been receiving a tremendous amount of feedback on the terminal performance of our VLD and you are the first person to mention fragments in the meat when using other bullets. I do not know if the hunters who are using our VLDs are cutting away the wound channel or if the bulk of the fragments are ending up in the internal organs but it has not been mentioned.

This is speculation but since the VLD bullet penetrates through the initial tissue and comes apart in the organs it may not be a factor. We do know that the other bullets you mentioned come apart on impact so there are fragments traveling through the meat on the entrance side. I doubt these fragments traveled far enough to embed themselves in the meat on the other side of the animal so I suspect that what you found were fragments in the meat on the entrance side.

We shot and dissected 5 wild boar in WV this summer and found that the wound channel on all five animals was in the organs. The tissue and bone on the entrance side had a small bullet sized hole. The wound channel was through the organs and what was left of the bullet was found on the inside surface of the meat on the other side.

I appreciate your comments and value all feedback. Without it we cannot learn and improve. Based on what we have seen and what has been reported I believe you will be happy with all aspect of the performance of our VLD on game.

Eric

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't hunt with them but as long as we have Eric checking in here, I will report that the Berger 90 gr .224s work just fine in my attempt to turn an AR into a Long Range target rifle. Unlike another brand, they all arrive at the 500 metre and 600 yard targets.
Health and weather permitting, I will try to stretch that to 1000 this weekend.

 

[snuffy]

I did some subsequent testing today. I raised the powder charge by one grain to 38.0 gr. varget 10 shells. I also loaded 15 at the 37.0 level. These two groups are both the 38 grain loads.

The 37.0 grain loads showed a tendacy to shoot two seperate groups, one above the other to result in over an inch, in a 5 shot group. Some signs of verticle stringing.

Since these are loaded to within .005 of the lands, they're way too long to work through the magazine. SO I loaded 5 at just clearing the mag to feed through. They showed definete vertical stringing for a 1.63 group! I'll have to work on that load IF I'm going to hunt with those bullets.

 

[Jim Watson]

VLDs are said to shoot more accurately when loaded into the rifling, .010" of "jam" or more. I know mine do. Which makes nearly any rifle a single shot proposition with them.

 

[snuffy]

short update

Just a short note to say that no deer were co-operating to get shot during our 9 day rifle season this year. Sooo I'll have to wait til next year to try the Berger VLD as a hunting bullet.

I corresponded with Walt, he gave me some loading data for the 168 VLD 7mm bullet seated at 2.800. Those cleared the mags with room to spare, and shot under an inch as well.

Our deer season was a real wash out, warm temps little game movement.