Berry’s 230 gr 45ACP + Universal

[jski]

+1

Not sure what the +1 means?

As Walk suggests, adjust your drop to accommodate the charge variation. For example, my .45ACP load is 6.5grn Unique under any 230grn bullet, which is a max load (in my current Speer manual.) I set my drop for 6.4grn... and let the flakes drop where they may. I have loaded as high as 6.9grn Unique (old Speer data, since rectified...) so I know even if I drop 6.6grn, or even 6.7grn, I'm still OK, as Unique is very docile in that manner, as I expect Universal is as well.

So if I’m looking for a 5.5 gr charge of Universal, I do what? I set Redding’s micrometer so that 3 throws averages out at 5.5 gr (if 5.5 gr is the desired throw) and leave it there … come what may?

 

[Soonerpesek]

C’mon man……

+1means he agrees with the statement…

Use 10 throws to get the average drop…

……..it’s not nearly as difficult as you want to make this….

 

[Charlie98]

So if I’m looking for a 5.5 gr charge of Universal, I do what? I set Redding’s micrometer so that 3 throws averages out at 5.5 gr (if 5.5 gr is the desired throw) and leave it there … come what may?

Well... let's look at the data you posted. Hodgdon gives a charge range of 5.1 to 5.6grn Universal, using the Hornady FP bullet at 1.200" First thing you are going to need to do is establish what your COL is going to be. Like Walk suggests, I would start at 1.260" because that's where I seat my 230grn RN bullets as well... it works good, and you are shooting those in a revolver anyway. Because I'm not familiar with Universal, I would start at 5.1grn and work up to 5.5grn as a tester, to make sure your pistol likes that powder and charge, and that it's safe.

QuickLoad tells me that the Rainier 230grn RN (plated) bullet, seated at 2.600", and 5.5grn Universal puts you perfectly in that 830fps range, at short of 19K PSI... that seems like a reasonable goal, and mimics what the Hodgdon data is saying. Assuming your ladder doesn't show issues, I would set your drop for 5.5grn, drop 10 and see what the average and the extremes are. You might need to set your drop at 5.4grn, and accept a few FPS loss for a further margin of safety. QuickLoad tells me you can go further with Universal and still be under max pressure for the .45ACP, but I am not recommending that, I'm saying that because if you set your drop up for 5.5grn, and you are within .2grn in either direction, you are still within the safety margin... according to QuickLoad. Universal is a mid-range powder, I would not expect it to get skwerrly and peak like a faster powder might do (think TiteGroup, WST, et al) that's one of the endearing features of a powder like Universal or Unique.

Your margin of safety can only be determined by you. I have been loading Unique for over 30 years... I know what it does, and what it doesn't do. I'm perfectly fine setting my drop for 6.4grn and going after 1000 rounds of .45ACP. Some handloaders can't handle powders that don't drop to the tenth every drop, if you are one of those, it would be my suggestion to find a different powder. If you want some load specifics... a particular COL or powder charge, etc... PM me and I'll run it through QuickLoad for you.

 

[jski]

Well... let's look at the data you posted. Hodgdon gives a charge range of 5.1 to 5.6grn Universal, using the Hornady FP bullet at 1.200" First thing you are going to need to do is establish what your COL is going to be. Like Walk suggests, I would start at 1.260" because that's where I seat my 230grn RN bullets as well... it works good, and you are shooting those in a revolver anyway. Because I'm not familiar with Universal, I would start at 5.1grn and work up to 5.5grn as a tester, to make sure your pistol likes that powder and charge, and that it's safe.

QuickLoad tells me that the Rainier 230grn RN (plated) bullet, seated at 2.600", and 5.5grn Universal puts you perfectly in that 830fps range, at short of 19K PSI... that seems like a reasonable goal, and mimics what the Hodgdon data is saying. Assuming your ladder doesn't show issues, I would set your drop for 5.5grn, drop 10 and see what the average and the extremes are. You might need to set your drop at 5.4grn, and accept a few FPS loss for a further margin of safety. QuickLoad tells me you can go further with Universal and still be under max pressure for the .45ACP, but I am not recommending that, I'm saying that because if you set your drop up for 5.5grn, and you are within .2grn in either direction, you are still within the safety margin... according to QuickLoad. Universal is a mid-range powder, I would not expect it to get skwerrly and peak like a faster powder might do (think TiteGroup, WST, et al) that's one of the endearing features of a powder like Universal or Unique.

Your margin of safety can only be determined by you. I have been loading Unique for over 30 years... I know what it does, and what it doesn't do. I'm perfectly fine setting my drop for 6.4grn and going after 1000 rounds of .45ACP. Some handloaders can't handle powders that don't drop to the tenth every drop, if you are one of those, it would be my suggestion to find a different powder. If you want some load specifics... a particular COL or powder charge, etc... PM me and I'll run it through QuickLoad for you.

I used the 1.237” COL recommended by Berry’s:

Berry's recommend an OAL of 1.237 for their 230gr RN

 

[Charlie98]

I used the 1.237” COL recommended by Berry’s:

Fair enough. What did you do with the powder charge?

The shorter COL pushes the pressure up a bit, not alarming, but enough.

 

[jski]

Fair enough. What did you do with the powder charge?

The shorter COL pushes the pressure up a bit, not alarming, but enough.

I used 5.5±0.1 … even tho it took quite a few throws to accomplish that. Like a said earlier, there may be a 5.7 throw in one of the 100 rounds but since these are not +P loads, I think I’m ok.

BTW, this is the first time I’ve used Universal so the large flakes are something I’d only previously experienced with Unique, which was painful. I gave my 3 lbs of Unique away.

 

[jski]

===== Berry's 45 acp 230g RN =====

Bullet O.A.L.: .638"

Cartridge Name: 45 ACP
Cartridge O.A.L.: 1.237"
Max Velocity: 1250 fps

 

[Walkalong]

Where did they get a max velocity of 1250 for a 230 gr in .45 ACP!

That’s nuts.


And 1.237 is short, the suggested longer 1.260/1.265 would give a little more margin for error

 

[Blue68f100]

Where did they get a max velocity of 1250 for a 230 gr in .45 ACP!

That’s nuts.


And 1.237 is short, the suggested longer 1.260/1.265 would give a little more margin for error

That's Berry's suggested MAX Speed.

I would not want to be one loaded to 1250fps, that would be bad news on a std 1911. Even tough on one that's been highly modified to take the higher load.

 

[ballman6711]

the suggested longer 1.260/1.265 would give a little more margin for error

I would use this length if I were loading for a revolver. If I had a revolver and a semi-auto I would load to function in the semi and use it in both, rather than having different loads and trying to keep them separate. But I don't have a revolver in 45acp, so I load 230gr fmj's at about 1.250" since that's what works in my guns. 1.260" has problems feeding sometimes.

I'm thinking Berry's recommended OAL is for a semi-auto, and not a revolver, since those bullets don't have a crimp groove.

OP, use the powder you have and make it work, or get a different powder. Weigh each charge if you're not comfortable with your throws, or back it off a few tenths. Penetration and expansion aren't going to be great in a short barrel revolver, and an fmj all but eliminates expansion.

Good luck with it, and keep us posted with your results.

chris

 

[Walkalong]

separate. But I don't have a revolver in 45acp, so I load 230gr fmj's at about 1.250" since that's what works in my guns. 1.260" has problems feeding sometimes.

Interesting, I’ve never loaded RN in .45 ACP shorter than the 1.260/1.265 OAL I posted, and never have feeding issues.

I do see the shorter 1.250 posted from time to time here, so it must work well too.

I load all my .45 ACP to work in my autos, and have a couple of those that shoot great in my .45 ACP revolver, so I’ve never tweaked OAL for the revolver.

 

[Charlie98]

That's Berry's suggested MAX Speed.

It's possible someone would use those bullets in .45 Super, or even .45 Winchester Magnum.

I used 5.5±0.1 … even tho it took quite a few throws to accomplish that. Like a said earlier, there may be a 5.7 throw in one of the 100 rounds but since these are not +P loads, I think I’m ok.

And 1.237 is short, the suggested longer 1.260/1.265 would give a little more margin for error

That's kind of my thought...

Again, using QuickLoad, with that short of COL (1.237") a 5.7grn drop of Universal puts you in to +P territory, but just barely. I'm sure your revolver can handle it, so I wouldn't get too excited about it, but knowledge is power. The longer COL solves some problems.

Having said that, I would certainly take your 100 rounds to the range and see what shakes out with them, and let us know.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Interesting, I’ve never loaded RN in .45 ACP shorter than the 1.260/1.265 OAL I posted, and never have feeding issues.

I do see the shorter 1.250 posted from time to time here, so it must work well too.

I load all my .45 ACP to work in my autos, and have a couple of those that shoot great in my .45 ACP revolver, so I’ve never tweaked OAL for the revolver.

Yep. I use the .45 acp load in my 1911-A1 and Pietta revolver. A .45 Colt/.45 acp convertible. Works just fine.

 

[jski]

Where did they get a max velocity of 1250 for a 230 gr in .45 ACP!

That’s nuts.


And 1.237 is short, the suggested longer 1.260/1.265 would give a little more margin for error

I think that’s just the number BERRY gives for their plated bullets and has nothing to do with 45 ACP bullets in particular.

 

[jski]

Again, using QuickLoad, with that short of COL (1.237") a 5.7grn drop of Universal puts you in to +P territory, but just barely. I'm sure your revolver can handle it, so I wouldn't get too excited about it, but knowledge is power. The longer COL solves some problems.

Having said that, I would certainly take your 100 rounds to the range and see what shakes out with them, and let us know.

S&W says it’s rated for +P loads. S&W says any of their guns manufactured after 1995 are designed for +P loads and mine was manufactured in 2007.

 

[Charlie98]

S&W says it’s rated for +P loads.

Indeed!

I'm sure your revolver can handle it, so I wouldn't get too excited about it

This is just full disclosure, I want you to understand you are pushing the limits of standard pressure .45ACP. In that nice S&W revolver, I have no doubt it can handle it, but the day is still young... you might come home with a new 1911 or something.

 

[jski]

… but the day is still young... you might come home with a new 1911 or something.

I think that applies to the 1911s as well. Plus, I would probably get a Ruger 1911 which can handle 45 Supers with a swapped out recoil spring. Just call Wolff Springs.

 

[ballman6711]

Interesting, I’ve never loaded RN in .45 ACP shorter than the 1.260/1.265 OAL I posted, and never have feeding issues.

I do see the shorter 1.250 posted from time to time here, so it must work well too.

I load all my .45 ACP to work in my autos, and have a couple of those that shoot great in my .45 ACP revolver, so I’ve never tweaked OAL for the revolver.

I just pulled out my log book and realized that the 1.250" OAL is for Hornady's 230gr HAP. My notes say the 230gr FMJ works at 1.255".

chris