Best .223 "Social" Projectile, SHTF

[momchenr]

I've got an M4, and I'm working on loading up a 1,000 rounds to put in an ammo can and save for SHTF, "Rainy Day" purposes. I know that a lot of people don't consider the M4 a preferred anti-personnel weapon, especially in SHTF situations, but it's what I've got.

I've been doing a lot of research on frangible projectiles. I love the idea of the Varmint Grenades but wish they came in 62-grain weights. I have to pick between 50-grain Varmint Grenades, or my current stash of 62-grain BTFMJ.

I want to know what the preferred load is for "social" encounters within 300 yards, that causes the biggest wound cavities. Just wanted to see what people thought. I like the idea of heavier, explosive bullets, but it seems like I have to pick one or the other.

 

[rcmodel]

55 or 60 grain Hornady V-Max or Nosler Ballistic Tips would be my choice.
Oh wait! It is my choice!

Unlike FMJ, they will reliably frag or at least mushroom at extended range out of a 16" barrel. And they feed slicker then owl dodo.

Hornady TAP Urban LEO ammo is loaded with them.
Click the yellow "View" next to each load to see ballistics gel results.
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/detail.php?id=130&sID=73

Also see the 75 grain JHP TAP load if you have a 1/9 or faster barrel twist.
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail.php?id=130&sID=141&pID=1

rc

 

[rjrivero]

The .224 diameter bullets don't retain much energy upon impact. The varmint type rounds can result in wide but shallow wounds. However, a good spire point, will do nicely on medium sized game. The current school of thought is 12" of penetration at least to reach vital organs.

My daughter took a russian boar with 62gr Hornaday Partition over a nice max load of H335 last January. That little bullet hits surprisingly hard.

I would consider the Barnes TSX offering as well, if hunting in an area that didn't allow lead.

There is a rather neat writeup on ar15.com in the ammo oracle area. LINK HERE. Enjoy the reading.

 

[BADUNAME37]

Extreme devastation and deep wounding.
Barnes Solid Copper 62g TSX Bullet Hollow Point.
This will apparently go through many large game animals lengthwise and the speed and opening of the four X pedals will cause massive internal injury in a rapid fashion.

That's what I load using H335 Powder and CCI 41 Small Rifle Mil-Spec Magnum Primers. As long as your rifle has a 1:9 twist, you should be fine. Any twist less than 1:9, I would reconsider and go with the next lighter bullet, or experiment a little.

 

[rjrivero]

Friendly, Don't Fire! ;

Have you used any TSX's on any game? I plan on getting a few to test out, but I was surprisingly happy with the Nosler Partition performance.

Just interested in hearing some first hand experience with those projectiles.

Thanks.

 

[BADUNAME37]

No, actually, I haven't. I did a LOT of research - reading what others have done with those bullets which is the main reason I was sold on them.

I used it last fall during black bear and deer season - however, just because I am deer or black bear hunting doesn't mean that I shoot any. I think I am a good hunter and blame it on the lack of herd, hunters shooting off-hours, etc. LOL (got to have an excuse)

Anywho, the Nosler Partition is also an excellent bullet! Before the Barnes X came out, I always used Nosler Partition bullets for my big game "knockdown" power loads!




Wow, I put that AR15 site into my Favorites!
http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/
There is literally a WEALTH of information there!

 

[rcmodel]

I'm of the opinion that a bonded or solid bullet that works for bear hunting is probably not the best choice for civilian SD use. And I kind of got the drift that was what the OP ask about.

Any bullet that hangs together and continues on down range after shooting through a deer or hog will do the same after shooting through a felon.

It seems to me the explosive bullets used in TAP LEO Urban ammo is used to prevent dangerous over-penetration in homes & streets. Probably just the same sort of scenario the OP is asking about.

rc

 

[BADUNAME37]

Yes, RC,
I went back and re-read what they asked and I see that you are correct.
For that - any factory 55g, 62g, or whatever should work!

 

[Walkalong]

I have some 55, & 60 Gr V-Max bullets I intend to test, along with the 53 Gr A-Max one of these days soon. I have some Win 64 Gr Power Points that do quite well, and despite the exposed lead tip, have fed 100% in my AR. (They are old ones though. The new ones are a bit different with no cannelure. I need to try some of those) I also want to try some of these Hornady HP's, which supposedly hold together well. If the 60 Gr V-Max impresses me in medium, I am going to load some of those to go along with my other rainy day ammo. As rcmodel posted, they feed as well or better than FMJ bullets.

 

[longdayjake]

If your going for the cheapest you should look at the 62 grain FMJ. If you can afford the 60 grain Vmax then that is the route I would take.

 

[Water-Man]

If your barrel can handle it, 75gr. BTHP.

 

[rcmodel]

I am also of the opinion that you would be better served with lighter 55-60 grain bullets at higher velocity then you can get with 75 grain bullets in a 16" barrel carbine.

Velocity is the key to explosive bullet performance at longer range like the 300 yards the OP ask about.

That is the problem with the M4 stopping power issues at longer ranges we hear so much about. Too much velocity loss with 62 grain FMJ bullets to get them to break apart.

rc

 

[cougar1717]

My choice is the 55gr V-max. I always keep a mag of those cartridges loaded.

 

[LexDiamonds]

Also, just to add to the conversation, at 200yrds+ I am thinking flee! rather than engage! but thats just me. This all being said, I like the 64grn winchester powerpoints for social work.

 

[rjrivero]

I'm of the opinion that a bonded or solid bullet that works for bear hunting is probably not the best choice for civilian SD use. And I kind of got the drift that was what the OP ask about.

Any bullet that hangs together and continues on down range after shooting through a deer or hog will do the same after shooting through a felon.

Which is why I like the design of the Nosler Partition. The front of the partition is soft and not bonded to the jacket. It will deliver most of it's energy on the first target struck. The rear of the bullet is bonded and will drive deeper, but with the front of the jacket fragmenting and dragging on it's way into the target further dispursing energy. Some folks do list it as a barrier penetrating round, but IMVHO, it provides a descent balance.

Wow, I put that AR15 site into my Favorites!
http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/
There is literally a WEALTH of information there!

If you like that one, you'll love this one. LINK HERE.

 

[Byron]

I agree with LexDiamonds in that 200+ do not engage.Out of a 16" barrel, the M193 is adequate.I am aware of the fragmentation discussions on this bullet.The Sierra 55 grain Pro Hunter is another good choice.Must agree with RC on the Nosler 55 grain Ballistic Tip.

 

[kutter]

Im still working on finding the sweet spot for my 556. For my barrel, which is 1:7, it seems to be in the 69-75gr weights. Having said that, inside of 100yds, 62gr shoot just as well and can be had pulled for a very reasonable price.

Frankly, if I need to shoot beyond 100-150yds, I am using my .308 with an optic on it, since I know that I do not need to worry about bullet speed/energy with a 180gr 30cal round.

 

[ScottyPotty]

a soft point bullet (64gn P.P.) would be my choice, it provides expansion but will also get the penetration that you need. It would also be a better choice for deer.

 

[A and O]

My budget for bg's is under .15 ea. So on a budget I'd go with any SP or vmax bullet above 50gr's.

Here's a thought for you. Learn how to place your bullets properly and the bullet you are using will not matter as much any longer.

 

[bomb dropper]

I know that a lot of people don't consider the M4 a preferred anti-personnel weapon

I hate this statement. It will kill and it will do it well

That being said load your 62's and some hollow points maybe a single 5.56 doesn't have a lot of fragmentation but two will do the job. There's no replacement for displacement

 

[SSN Vet]

I would humbly submit that in any scenario in which you might realistically find yourself justified to pull the trigger, the M193 load will not leave you lacking.

 

[W.E.G.]

Have any of these loads actually been tested on zombies, or is this all just reckless conjecture?

 

[rcmodel]

Pretty sure the Nosler Ballistic-Tip and later Hornady V-Max were both tested on zombies during the development stage.

The government wouldn't let them test on live animals or humans.

rc

 

[bomb dropper]

I heard that hornady is working on a oak boat tail for the vampires. And there's talk that Speer is doing a silver hollow point but with the price of silver they are using an 80/20 silver tin mix but it only has effects on 73.86% of test subjects.

I guess RC caught the issue of handloader that had the zombie results. I might have to buy the back issue.

 

[kestak]

Greetings,

My self defense is Hornady SP 55 grains and I am adding Hornady V-max 55 grains.

Thank you