Best AR under 1500
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Waywatcher
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Best for what? Making tiny groups, withstanding torturous abuse, etc.?
Can't really go wrong with the colt for a basic carbine, go for it.
Yes, forearm is standard polymer hanguards. Yes, you can replace those stock hangauards with a myriad of rails and forearms. I went the cheap route and threw on a magpul...
Yes, forearm is standard polymer hanguards. Yes, you can replace those stock hangauards with a myriad of rails and forearms. I went the cheap route and threw on a magpul...
There will be no best at all tasks gun. There are compromises to make with any gun. Chrome lined barrels are more durable, but non-chrome lined are generally more accurate. That said, you get plenty of accuracy with a chrome lined barrel. I'm going to be picking up a Colt 6920 Magpul Sporter. I know it will be bullet proof and as accurate as I need. If I want to varmint hunt, I'll use my Bushmaster Varminter. It may be the most accurate AR out there, but the barrel is not chrome lined and thus the barrel life will be shorter than the Colt.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
For $15 large?
I'd go with a Colt SP6940.
http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtRifles/ColtSporters.aspx
rc
I'd go with a Colt SP6940.
http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtRifles/ColtSporters.aspx
rc
Matthew Courtney
Member
The front sight on the 6920 has the gas block built into it, so if you ditch it you will need to get a gas block as well as a rail. For the same weight, you could get a 6721 H bar, get a carbon fiber free float tube, and add small rail sections where you want accessories. The H bar will be more accurate with bullets under 70 grains and won't get hot as fast.
If you plan on shooting bullets over 70 grains, go with the 6920.
If you plan on shooting bullets over 70 grains, go with the 6920.
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First, thank you for choosing the AR-15. Enjoy your stay. Please study up over at m4carbine.net they'll get you filled in. Join, study up, then post after several hours of reading up on "the chart", TDP, mil-spec, 4150/4140/11595E, HPT/MPI/shot peened, staking, buffer weights, the A5 stock system, gas system lengths, etc. After that, confirm your knowledge via a well-thought-out post, explaining your needs, budget, and what state/country you live in. They'll give you a lot of stuff to research/gaze at/ponder, and help you choose the best rifle for your needs.
If you have $1500 total? PSA 16" patrol carbine with Aimpoint PRO for $1000 total. Top of the line optic, mil-spec carbine.
If you want a gun alone for $1500? Build, you'll get more for your money, and get exactly what you want. Just put a standard mid-length 16" barrel in to start, very effective rifle set up. Use an A5 stock kit and a Spikes Tactical Enhanced LPK. Any decent lower from Spikes Tactical, CMMG, PSA, etc. on your gun store's shelves will work. The upper? I'd advise a PSA full-auto, mil-spec BCG. You want mil-spec. Don't dick around with the crappy gun show parts, and study up on what the true mil-spec is. Know it, it is the standard to compare everything else on the market to. For a fore-end, go with either Magpul MOE handguards or a Troy Industries Alpha Rail (13" variety with an integrated sight). I'd advise a Vortex G6A2 Flash Eliminator, or an AAC Blackout 51T muzzle device. Go for the AAC if you want to mount a suppressor (AAC is the way to go in centerfire suppressors), the Vortex if you don't need a suppressor mount.
Regardless of whether you buy or build, add a Blue Force Gear VCAS Sling. Buy four 30 round PMAG's (enough for any standard carbine class, as well as your defensive loadout, just keep ammo on stripper clips). Buy a Blue Force Gear 10-Speed Chest Rig.
Last I checked, that can all be put together for under $1500, easily. Save up a few hundred extra, and find a carbine course run by a reputable and well-known professional. For under $2200, you ought be able to find a carbine course as well as set up your carbine and acquire adequate ammo for a course (varies from 500-2000 rounds, depending, you can get 2k M193 ammo for under $600).
If I'm not mistaken, the rifle/chest rig/magazines/sling totals out about $1200. The ammo (maximum for a class) is approximately $425-450 (1500 rounds or so). That means you have about $550 for a course. After said course, you'll (hopefully) be competent in the operation of a carbine for defensive needs. You'd do well to put at least 1,000 rounds a year through the gun, to keep your training up (try to shoot monthly if not more). On that schedule, you'd need to replace the barrel somewhere around 12 years from now (the barrels cost anywhere from as low as $175 from Palmetto State Armory to almost $300 via BCM). You'll have to replace the bolt every 3,000-5,000 rounds or so (it'll start having issues, you can sometimes rebuild the bolt and alleviate said issues, I carry a complete bolt at all times), and the carrier ought be replaced with each barrel (wear characteristics show this, just buy a complete mil-spec BCG from PSA for about $110-135 depending). Your buffer spring ought also be replaced every 5,000 rounds or so, cheap to do if you're shooting that much ammo. Aside from that, the gun doesn't wear much. Eventually, your trigger pins will wear the holes larger after many thousands of rounds, that isn't too much of an issue generally. If you can afford to fire the many thousands of rounds through your AR that it takes to wear it this far, you can afford to replace the parts.
I'd advise against proprietary designs like the Colt 6940. While quality, they aren't easy to find replacement parts for (barrels in the 6940, for example).
Good luck in your AR-15 adventures!
If you have $1500 total? PSA 16" patrol carbine with Aimpoint PRO for $1000 total. Top of the line optic, mil-spec carbine.
If you want a gun alone for $1500? Build, you'll get more for your money, and get exactly what you want. Just put a standard mid-length 16" barrel in to start, very effective rifle set up. Use an A5 stock kit and a Spikes Tactical Enhanced LPK. Any decent lower from Spikes Tactical, CMMG, PSA, etc. on your gun store's shelves will work. The upper? I'd advise a PSA full-auto, mil-spec BCG. You want mil-spec. Don't dick around with the crappy gun show parts, and study up on what the true mil-spec is. Know it, it is the standard to compare everything else on the market to. For a fore-end, go with either Magpul MOE handguards or a Troy Industries Alpha Rail (13" variety with an integrated sight). I'd advise a Vortex G6A2 Flash Eliminator, or an AAC Blackout 51T muzzle device. Go for the AAC if you want to mount a suppressor (AAC is the way to go in centerfire suppressors), the Vortex if you don't need a suppressor mount.
Regardless of whether you buy or build, add a Blue Force Gear VCAS Sling. Buy four 30 round PMAG's (enough for any standard carbine class, as well as your defensive loadout, just keep ammo on stripper clips). Buy a Blue Force Gear 10-Speed Chest Rig.
Last I checked, that can all be put together for under $1500, easily. Save up a few hundred extra, and find a carbine course run by a reputable and well-known professional. For under $2200, you ought be able to find a carbine course as well as set up your carbine and acquire adequate ammo for a course (varies from 500-2000 rounds, depending, you can get 2k M193 ammo for under $600).
If I'm not mistaken, the rifle/chest rig/magazines/sling totals out about $1200. The ammo (maximum for a class) is approximately $425-450 (1500 rounds or so). That means you have about $550 for a course. After said course, you'll (hopefully) be competent in the operation of a carbine for defensive needs. You'd do well to put at least 1,000 rounds a year through the gun, to keep your training up (try to shoot monthly if not more). On that schedule, you'd need to replace the barrel somewhere around 12 years from now (the barrels cost anywhere from as low as $175 from Palmetto State Armory to almost $300 via BCM). You'll have to replace the bolt every 3,000-5,000 rounds or so (it'll start having issues, you can sometimes rebuild the bolt and alleviate said issues, I carry a complete bolt at all times), and the carrier ought be replaced with each barrel (wear characteristics show this, just buy a complete mil-spec BCG from PSA for about $110-135 depending). Your buffer spring ought also be replaced every 5,000 rounds or so, cheap to do if you're shooting that much ammo. Aside from that, the gun doesn't wear much. Eventually, your trigger pins will wear the holes larger after many thousands of rounds, that isn't too much of an issue generally. If you can afford to fire the many thousands of rounds through your AR that it takes to wear it this far, you can afford to replace the parts.
I'd advise against proprietary designs like the Colt 6940. While quality, they aren't easy to find replacement parts for (barrels in the 6940, for example).
Good luck in your AR-15 adventures!
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JustinJ
Member
What in the OP indicates the need for chest rig and carbine class? If that's what one enjoys, great, have fun. But very little has any real world application for people who don't carry a carbine for a living.
If you go Colt, which i highly recomend, go with the 6720. You're buying a semi auto and probably won't be attaching a grenade launcher so have no use for the extra weight of a gov't profile barrel. Yes, a rail can be added to a Colt 6720, 6920, and any other AR that uses a standard upper receiver. Colt does however have a model, the 6940, with free floated upper receiver built into the upper receiver. It also comes with a front and rear flip up sight and all parts but the upper receiver are milspec. The upper is not because there is no milspec for a monolithic upper receiver. Materials wise its the same though.
The top end ARs are Colt, Daniel Defense, LMT, LWRC and Noveske.
If you go Colt, which i highly recomend, go with the 6720. You're buying a semi auto and probably won't be attaching a grenade launcher so have no use for the extra weight of a gov't profile barrel. Yes, a rail can be added to a Colt 6720, 6920, and any other AR that uses a standard upper receiver. Colt does however have a model, the 6940, with free floated upper receiver built into the upper receiver. It also comes with a front and rear flip up sight and all parts but the upper receiver are milspec. The upper is not because there is no milspec for a monolithic upper receiver. Materials wise its the same though.
The top end ARs are Colt, Daniel Defense, LMT, LWRC and Noveske.
Waywatcher
Member
OP, you're going to have to compromise on something, or in other words, there is no "best" is all situations.
Here are some guidelines for you:
--Accuracy is not determined by barrel length.
--If you want increased accuracy potential, get a free floated barrel.
--If you want maximum accuracy, get a Stainless Barrel.
--If you want increased durability at the expense of teeny-tiny groups, get chrome lined.
--If you want increased velocity (and thus range) get a 20" barrel.
--If you want increased portability, get a 16" barrel.
--If you want a compromise between the two, get an 18" barrel.
--For a general purpose AR, get a 1-7 or 1-8 twist to accomodate long bullets.
For a Carbine that would do reasonably well all around, I would look into a 16" Recce, like this: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...ceiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid16 ss410 vtrx13.htm
All that said, I was unwilling (or unwanting) to compromise on velocity and accuracy, so I have a 20" stainless free floated bull barrel.
Here are some guidelines for you:
--Accuracy is not determined by barrel length.
--If you want increased accuracy potential, get a free floated barrel.
--If you want maximum accuracy, get a Stainless Barrel.
--If you want increased durability at the expense of teeny-tiny groups, get chrome lined.
--If you want increased velocity (and thus range) get a 20" barrel.
--If you want increased portability, get a 16" barrel.
--If you want a compromise between the two, get an 18" barrel.
--For a general purpose AR, get a 1-7 or 1-8 twist to accomodate long bullets.
For a Carbine that would do reasonably well all around, I would look into a 16" Recce, like this: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...ceiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid16 ss410 vtrx13.htm
All that said, I was unwilling (or unwanting) to compromise on velocity and accuracy, so I have a 20" stainless free floated bull barrel.
2WheelsGood
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I agree with everything you said except this. I think for a general purpose AR 1/9 may be better.
Waywatcher
Member
Why?
I'd rather have the option for 70 TSX, 77 SMK, etc.
I'd rather have the option for 70 TSX, 77 SMK, etc.
Ghost Tracker
Member
It doesn't matter if you spend $1500 for a Colt, Daniel Defense, Novelske, etc. etc. You're STILL gonna' tweak, change, add optics, switch to open-sights, try different stocks, free-float, consider "piston", buy another upper(s), buy mags, buy more mags, try different mags, I need a drag bag & generally have a terminal case of AR"itis". We LOVE this disease. Enjoy your contamination.
2WheelsGood
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Because you said "general purpose". Better with heavier bullets means worse with light ones. I would suggest the OP do his own research on the subject as many pages are out there dedicated to the subject.
But I will say this, if 1/7 was simply better, they wouldn't even make anything else. There's a reason they do.
True for that kind of money you can get a monolithic upper and free-floated Colt 6940. But if you don't like the front end you're stuck. Maybe not the best choice for a first AR.
Waywatcher
Member
Drive by "model name only" posts are not helpful.
At least say why.
General purpose, to me, means able to use ammunition generally available and applicable to ARs. Even if it was true that a 1-8 was less than ideal for a 55 grain, thats better than keyholing with match loads. Look at it this way:
1-8 with 55 grains: acceptable (if less than ideal) performance.
1-8 with 77 grains: perfect performance with match loads, such as SMK
1-9 with 55 grains: good performance with most commonly available ammo, but not match performance.
1-9 with 77 grains: possible keyholing and innaccurate with match ammo
The 1-8 strikes me as the general purpose, while the 1-9 is more of a niche twist. For the sake of full disclosure, my 20" stainless free floated AR has a 1-9 twist and I am happy with it; I stick to Hornady 75 OTMs and 62 TSX for match; but the 1-9 is more restrictive in regards to bullet choice than a 1-8.
At least say why.
General purpose, to me, means able to use ammunition generally available and applicable to ARs. Even if it was true that a 1-8 was less than ideal for a 55 grain, thats better than keyholing with match loads. Look at it this way:
1-8 with 55 grains: acceptable (if less than ideal) performance.
1-8 with 77 grains: perfect performance with match loads, such as SMK
1-9 with 55 grains: good performance with most commonly available ammo, but not match performance.
1-9 with 77 grains: possible keyholing and innaccurate with match ammo
The 1-8 strikes me as the general purpose, while the 1-9 is more of a niche twist. For the sake of full disclosure, my 20" stainless free floated AR has a 1-9 twist and I am happy with it; I stick to Hornady 75 OTMs and 62 TSX for match; but the 1-9 is more restrictive in regards to bullet choice than a 1-8.
2WheelsGood
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That sounds like "general use" to me. Ninety-some percent of AR owners aren't going to be shooting match loads or military tracers. The most commonly available ammo in my area at a reasonable price is 55 grain. This is what most people will shoot. And if you're looking for HD ammo, you're not likely going much heavier than that.
Again, you and I could argue about this 'til the end of time. There is tons of information out there, and anyone interested in making an informed decision should be looking beyond this thread.
Here's a good place to start: http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/perf_whattwist.html
He said self-defense...It isn't instinctual, it takes a lot of training to be able to operate a firearm under stress, to maintain muscle memory, that sort of thing. He asked about a rifle for plinking, varmints, and self defense. The rifle I laid out for him will do all that he asked for (though sans free float/magnified optics, varmints will be a challenge past 100 yards).
That's why I advise him to take a carbine class, and have a chest rig. belt-mounted magazine pouches will work as well, but either way, I'd advise the OP to integrate such equipment into his rifle system. If someone is coming into your home, it is far easier to put on a belt or chest rig than don pants, a jacket or such for magazine carriage, and pants/jacket/bathrobe are far less ideal for quick magazine access on a two-way range (yes I'd advise the OP to carry at least one spare magazine for his rifle, even with 30 round magazines. You can never have too much ammo).
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JustinJ
Member
What self defense scenarios are you envisioning? The only realistic one for a law abiding citizen will be response to a bump in the night in which case said training has very limited application. I'm not saying it won't enhance one's ability to defend against bumps in the night but those courses are generally meant to teach combat skills in which case the law of diminishing returns will be drastic. Extended gun fights where quick mag changes and vests are used just don't happen in the suburbs. There is no realistic threat in which case one can not defend there home with far less than 30 rounds.
Waywatcher
Member
I appreciate a good discussion, "disagreeing without being disagreeable."
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