Best AR Under $600?

[2ndtimer]

Very cool. What are the differences in the S&W M&P-15 and S&W M&P-15 II? Just the dust cover and forward assist?

The Sport II offers the dust cover and forward assist that the original Sport lacked. However, the new Sport II lacks the 5R rifled 1 in 8" twist that the original Sport has, instead opting for conventional rifling with a 1 in 9" twist rate. It should still be fine for bullets up to 69 gr in weight with the 1 in 9" twist.

 

[NWcityguy2]

The Sport I lost its 5R barrel long ago. There are lots of Sport I models, probably most of them, with a conventional rifled 1:9 barrel.

 

[Varminterror]

A lot of the "bad reputation" DPMS got was the nature of their business in years past. Bushmaster was the Lincoln, DPMS the Ford. When Remington started, they were the Mercury. But suddenly the market gets flooded with new blood and they all thumb their nose at DPMS. Oddly, Delton's earned a better rep because they were too cheap to ignore, and they ran well - never as clean or as reliable as a DPMS on average, but better than "enough" for the guys building them. Those of us who had been around the AR-15 block before the boom were scratching our heads - Deltons get better recommendations than DPMS or Bushmaster? WTH?

So then came the whole Windham split and the Freedom fiasco, coupled with the Bushmaster refocus on the ACR... so Bushmaster made some strategic decisions which weren't popular, kicking themselves down the totem pole in the hearts and minds of would-be buyers even more. But they still make an accurate and reliable rifle with as good or better fit and finish than most in their price class... DPMS still cranks out some of the most accurate-per-dollar AR's on the market.

Can't account for taste, I guess. Honda Civic's were really popular for a while there too, never understood that either.

What you'll find for any of these $400-600 rifles, almost all of them are sourced from the same few producers. They all have their little highs and little lows, but overall, if you could field 10 each of S&W M&P Sport II's, Ruger AR556's, Bushmaster XM-15E2S's, DPMS Sweet 16's/sportical/etc in the same price point, you're going to find very similar performance. Good or bad among the fleet would be no more likely than good or bad among the 10 of each brand... They'll all likely be over gassed, so beat up brass like crazy, but run well, all be accurate enough with good ammo, and all be clean enough to pass casual inspection. None will be diamonds in the rough, but finding a turd in the punchbowl won't be likely either.

Ultimately, you'd do just as well rolling dice as to picking based on brand in that class. If one has a stock set you like better, that's the one to get. Everything else will be effectively equal.

 

[redneck2]

What you'll find for any of these $400-600 rifles, almost all of them are sourced from the same few producers.

I know a guy that assembles BCG's. About 200,000-250,000 per year. Go to different mfgs. The shop he works for assembles and sells AR's.

As far as I can tell, the makers pretty much do what we would do if we built one. Buy a bunch of Lego pieces and build it up. They can make a complete rifle (upper and lower) from a pile of parts in about 15 minutes. I had them build what I consider a higher grade upper with a Wilson air gauged match barrel.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Varminterror, interesting take. Do you think that Bushmaster also got a bit of a bad reputation from their ARs being used in some high profile shootings such as the DC sniper case?

I remember that at least in the DC area Bushmaster really had a (unjustified) bad name after that.

 

[FL-NC]

I have seen the Ruger, S&W sport, and several PSA AR's for under $500. I would recommend a standard front sight base VS a low-profile gas block- they can be sketchy for cycling reliability. Don't overlook Vortex for good red dots with lifetime warranty and great customer service. A simple surefire G2 nitrolon 1" light can be attached to a rail with a 1" weaver type scope ring from wally world. A magpul MOE handguard can be purchased with whatever detachable rail sections you desire. For HD, its hard to beat iron sights front and rear. A simple and economic solution is to have the AR with standard front sight assembly, then use a detachable carry handle. The carry handle can be "cut back" so that you just have the rear sight and 1 attaching screw. This will cut down on weight and also expose some of the carry handle rail to attach a RDS if you desire. This way, if the RDS malfunctions or if you don't have time or forget to turn it on, you will still be ready to fight by co-witnessing through the inoperable RDS.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Short answer: S&W

Long Answer: Smith and Wesson

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Short answer: S&W

Long Answer: Smith and Wesson

Let me guess you're a big S&W fan

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Let me guess you're a big S&W fan

Actually, I don't own one S&W product but I respect the company hahaha.

But when it comes to someone who wants an answer, without going off on a long explanation about the virtues of rifling, different metal qualities, twist rates, buildg their own, yada yada yada... it's just easier to aim them at a cheap but good gun that has been around with a lifetime warranty. Yeah, there are Rugers, Del-Tons, new Savages, Windham Weaponry, PSA, and many other established companies... but at that point it is splitting hairs.

Besides, S&W is only three characters to type...

 

[Varminterror]

Varminterror, interesting take. Do you think that Bushmaster also got a bit of a bad reputation from their ARs being used in some high profile shootings such as the DC sniper case?

I remember that at least in the DC area Bushmaster really had a (unjustified) bad name after that.

I don't think it hurt Bushmaster with the average AR-15 buyer at that time, but I do think it did add investor pressure to the freedom group to lean their posture away from supporting and promoting Bushmaster as well as they could have.

AR's always have a bad name with the type of people they CAN have a bad name, and Bushmaster used to be much more synonymous with assault rifle than it is today.

Their 2 stage NM trigger is still one of my favorite AR triggers, and I'm still quite happy to build on their stripped lowers. I built over a hundred AR's on Bushmaster forged lowers in the early/mid 2000's, I built 5 of them in 2015, two for myself. I keep a couple of their lowers on hand such my HP service rifles can always say Bushmaster on the side, the rest of my life - just for nostalgia. Not sure I believe they'll ever be back up on top where they once were.

 

[AABEN]

I have had very good luck with Arma Lite and Windham AR Arma Lite is making one called the Eagle brand CORE has a life time warranty Anderson has a NO lube one out that will take 5000 rounds and keep going Stay in 1/9 1/8 twist

 

[Elkins45]

S&W is a gun maker, as opposed to several of the budget outfits that are gun assembelers. It's a meaningful distinction.

 

[boom boom]

Good time to buy, lots of good rifles as it is really easier to assemble an 1-3 MOA accurate AR using unskilled workers than lever or bolt action.

S&W makes a good entry AR with a warranty. Nothing really wrong with Bushmaster, Armalite, PSA, etc. either. Some complain that the Ruger upper is not wholly compatible with the mil-spec AR parts. For resale, I would suspect that the Smith or Ruger would hold its value on the low end.

I would recommend getting a nitrided barrel which I believe that S&W has as I believe it is optimum for long term use of wear, ease of cleaning, accuracy, and cost versus the std. moly chrome, chromed barrels, and stainless steel. Nitrided barrels (think Glock Tennifer coating or the coating on the S&W M&P pistol series) cost slightly more than moly chrome but I have found at the low end far easier to clean. Stainless steel is as well but it is a bit more pricey. Chromed barrels can be hit or miss on accuracy depending on who made the barrel--I would rather have the low priced chrome moly than chromed at the low end.

 

[NWcityguy2]

S&W is a gun maker, as opposed to several of the budget outfits that are gun assembelers. It's a meaningful distinction.

Yeah. I'll make sure to think about that next time I am shooting my AR, and see if anything about it changes.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

S&W is a gun maker, as opposed to several of the budget outfits that are gun assembelers. It's a meaningful distinction.

I'm a big S&W fan but I suspect this is a bit misleading as I suspect they don't make all of their own parts. To me it's like saying Ford and GM are automakers. And we know they buy many parts from subcontractors. I'd be shocked if S&W made every part that goes into their ARs.

To me the important thing is where are the critical parts coming from and how good are those parts. I really don't care if a company like S&W makes detent springs, grips, or hand guards I just care that they're quality parts. I'm more concerned about the quality of the barrel and BCG, the trigger and the machining on the upper and lower than who makes them.

 

[Elkins45]

Yeah. I'll make sure to think about that next time I am shooting my AR, and see if anything about it changes.

Meaning they actually have some control over the materials and QC processes, and are unlikely to try to slip a bad batch of marginal parts past the inspector, since they are making their own.

A small company that assembles parts rather than makes them is always at the mercy of the honesty and the QC processes of their suppliers.

 

[NWcityguy2]

Meaning they actually have some control over the materials and QC processes, and are unlikely to try to slip a bad batch of marginal parts past the inspector, since they are making their own.

A small company that assembles parts rather than makes them is always at the mercy of the honesty and the QC processes of their suppliers.

While the point you are making is still mostly irrelevant (because good parts being good, and bad parts being bad, is what is important) I'd like to point out something even more important; You are completely wrong. In the AR world, the majority of the bad parts have come from companies that have a history of making things in house, like Olympic, DPMS, and Bushmaster. The quality of ARs has dramatically increased with companies buying batches of parts from suppliers who sell to the government, and then assembling them into complete uppers and lowers.

Go through some ARs back from a time when companies produced parts in house. Are the carriers chrome lined? Do the bolts have under-powered blue extractor inserts? What steel is the bolt made out of? Is the gas key barely (or not at all) staked? Is the chamber 5.56? Is the gas port an appropriate size? Do the handguards have a metal heat shield? That's not even discussing QC, parts were just being made to a lower standard back then.

 

[Elkins45]

While the point you are making is still mostly irrelevant (because good parts being good, and bad parts being bad, is what is important) I'd like to point out something even more important; You are completely wrong. In the AR world, the majority of the bad parts have come from companies that have a history of making things in house, like Olympic, DPMS, and Bushmaster. The quality of ARs has dramatically increased with companies buying batches of parts from suppliers who sell to the government, and then assembling them into complete uppers and lowers.

Go through some ARs back from a time when companies produced parts in house. Are the carriers chrome lined? Do the bolts have under-powered blue extractor inserts? What steel is the bolt made out of? Is the gas key barely (or not at all) staked? Is the chamber 5.56? Is the gas port an appropriate size? Do the handguards have a metal heat shield? That's not even discussing QC, parts were just being made to a lower standard back then.

But we are talking about buying a rifle today, not 20 years ago.

Edit to add: this is not a discussion I'm highly invested in, but whether I'm right or wrong about in-house parts vs contracted I still say S&W in this price range.

 

[NWcityguy2]

AR parts getting better in quality and the bulk of the industry buying those parts from major manufacturers aren't two separate points. They are one in the same.

 

[2ndtimer]

The Sport I lost its 5R barrel long ago. There are lots of Sport I models, probably most of them, with a conventional rifled 1:9 barrel.

Note I said original Sport, which is what I have. The later Sport (1 1/2?) lacked the 5R rifling and went to the 1 in 9" twist. I still think the Sport II is a quality entry level AR, and if I felt the need to add another, it is the way I would go. I have seen them for $429.99 with free shipping. If they go under $400, I may have to buy one even if I don't need it.

 

[Redfisher60]

I just picked up a Sport 2 today! I'm excited about going to the range!

$1 under $500