Good AR?

BreechFace said:
Exactly. KAC and LMT are the only two top tier AR's that have design improvements that improve on design "weaknesses," of standard AR15/M4 weapons. I put weaknesses in "" because milspec AR's do very well on maintaining their ability to put lead down range. It is evident however, that the two aforementioned companies looked at the potential weaknesses and placed effort there.
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++1
 
InTheSwamp said:
With that I agree. I see no reason why they're so expensive, nothing "extra" worth paying the extra money for. Lots of fanfare, Vicker's endorsements and a healthy number of ads. When you buy Knight's and LMT, you're getting the extra work done, e.g., KAC proprietary bolt, LMT monorail and tougher steel bolt with a "better" designed extractor, etc. They put the + in the Mil-Spec+ DD brags about. But mostly, you're getting War proven rifles. While 90% of DD sales go to the civilian market, we have to wait for LMT and KAC to fulfill their military contracts...the market does the rest.



Yes, JP is worth paying for, but so are the other two. One is a proven game winner, the other two walk the talk in the trenches.

Edit: I got this from LMT's CS a few weeks ago...

The MARS-H stripped lower is still being made and is still a part of our commercial catalog. We do not have any available at the moment but we will have more products available for the commercial market this year now that we have finished our contract with Estonia

Disclaimer: My only Cool AR is a DD.
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I just checked out LMT website. I like the one piece upper/handguard. That's brilliant!

The one I saw was a conventional upper/lower handguard.

I also love how they used the line from Starship Troopers (would you like to know more?)on the description on their products...lol.

I see my next build coming now...lol.
 
I would get an Aero Precision complete upper and complete lower and a decent red dot like the Leupold RDS ( I have two of them, one on a 308 AR and a Remington 870 12ga slug gun. The 1MOA dot is very nice at modest distance!) and a nice sling like the Magpul MS4 Dual QD sling and a QD adaptor for an m-lok handguard and you should be able to get a complete lower with a Magpul stock that has an Ambidextrous QD slot built in. The only down side is their uppers don't include a BCG or charging handle...
So if you want something that's a complete rifle put together with everything you need except and optic and sling, I'd go with something like this... Spend the rest of your budget on a good optic, such as the RDS, or a LPVO, and sling and quality ammo, and mags!
This is our cost as an FFL, BTW....
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Or if money is truly no option, then get a LaRue 5.56 AR.
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12Bravo20 said:
........when it comes to the M16 series (to include M4) and AR15's - MIL SPEC is MIL SPEC no matter who's name is on the receiver. The parts either meet spec or they don't.
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C-grunt said:
The military has been fine tuning the AR15 for 60 years now. There is a reason things are the way they are. It's not because they wanted the smoothest shooting gun to shoot good groups at the range. They wanted the most reliable fighting rifle they could make.
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Both are very true Statements .
Given the broad spectrum of civilian manufacturers between them only two meets the OP's intent in my opinion.
1. FN (FN 36318 FN 15 M4 Military Collector 5.56x45mm NATO 16" Barrel) MSRP 2390.00 Price will greatly vary
2. Colt (Colt Mfg CR6920 M4 Carbine 5.56x45mm NATO 16.10" Barrel) MSRP 1099.00 Again Price will greatly vary

Why did I state the two above? Because they actually provided M4's to the military. If you go to current Military sources then your stuck at the FN plant in SC far far away from Hartford. Although the OP didn't address it the future resale value percentage will be higher most others. My basis for what I say is this:
JCooperfan1911 said:
I am looking to buy a basic, no frills 16” carbine for home defense. But I am wanting the highest quality, most reliable AR I can possibly get. Cost is of no concern.

I just want an absolute basic gun with no extra doodads and in original government configuration. I plan to add a red dot, flashlight, sling, and that’s it.

Thoughts?
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Now that doesn't mean that the other recommendations aren't as good/ great / valid / better, but rather I think fall outside the OP's intent. Ever try to sell that used Daniel Defense, BCM, Bushmaster, etc., etc. Fact is that the Colt will retain a higher % of it's initial cost so will the FN . Why is because they are or / was a actual vendor. That will or could make a difference to heirs if they desire to liquidate.
Just a opinion
 
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trackskippy said:
If youre going with a red dot, or other optic, Id skip the uppers with a fixed front sight.
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Here are my 3 current AR carbines. I'm not a big optic person... I was trained on peeps, and I shoot them pretty well. Having said that, I understand there is a place for a red dot optic, and particularly in what would likely be a low-light HD situation... my thoughts on that have come around a bit, lately.

JJqmtcbl.jpg

Rifle on the LEFT is a PSA kit gun, I already had an assembled lower; 16" middy, about $400, plus the lower (about $100 with the FCG.) I kept the fixed front sight because eventually it will have a Troy folding rear sight, but in the meantime, I'm training with the red dot to familiarize myself with it.

Rifle in the CENTER is my trusty lightweight RRA (upper) and LRB (lower) 16" mid-length. I think I spent $330 for the upper directly from RRA, and mounted it on my already assembled LRB lower. True to form, as I intended this to be as light and compact as possible, it has folding Troys and no optic.

Rifle on the RIGHT is a DPMS franken rifle... a carbine-length 16" barrel that I reassembled from mostly DPMS parts for about $400, including the base rifle. This rifle is not intended to have fixed sights... or at the outside, a set of Troy folders, eventually.

They all do the same thing. They all do the same basic thing as a $2500 AR with a fancy name. I would take one of my $500'ish AR's and $2000 in ammo and parts over a single $2500 AR and nothing... money being no object.
 
trackskippy said:
If youre going with a red dot, or other optic, Id skip the uppers with a fixed front sight. If you feel the need to have a front sight, you can always add one of the rail mounted fixed, or flip up BUIS's.

I agree with the "Don't fall for the "Brand name scam" " line of thinking. Something like one of the S&W flat tops will do you just fine, and leave you money for better optics and ammo.
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I disagree on the front sight post. I have multiple AR15's all have fixed front sight posts. In my experience, fixed front sight posts do not interfere with Red Dots.

I do agree with your 2nd point though.

The accessories on this AR15 pistol of mine (with soon to be illegal brace) are worth more than the pistol. PSA Pistol kit with and Anderson lower receiver.

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Its not that they interfere, as much as they are just annoying, especially when you compare them to the guns without the front sight.

Just seeing the target and the dot, with no other distractions, is a big plus.
 
Charlie98 said:
They all do the same thing. They all do the same basic thing as a $2500 AR with a fancy name. I would take one of my $500'ish AR's and $2000 in ammo and parts over a single $2500 AR and nothing... money being no object.
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A Hi-Point shoots a bullet out of its barrel too.

That said, a Piston gun is going to do some different things compared to a DI gun. Fully ambidextrous lowers, automatic magazine ejection, Long stroke, short stroke, . etc. etc. tons and tons of options out there from mild to wild. Gamers, duty and hobbyists all have their niche.

Weird POV to assume that the person asking for a $$ unlimited suggestion can only afford the gun and nothing else.
 
tarosean said:
A Hi-Point shoots a bullet out of its barrel too.

That said, a Piston gun is going to do some different things compared to a DI gun. Fully ambidextrous lowers, automatic magazine ejection, Long stroke, short stroke, . etc. etc. tons and tons of options out there from mild to wild. Gamers, duty and hobbyists all have their niche.

Weird POV to assume that the person asking for a $$ unlimited suggestion can only afford the gun and nothing else.
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I'm not saying there is not an advantage to high-end guns, but if you read the OP's requirements, he wants... to quote...

JCooperfan1911 said:
I am looking to buy a basic, no frills 16” carbine for home defense. But I am wanting the highest quality, most reliable AR I can possibly get. Cost is of no concern.
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Circle that quote around to my comment...

Charlie98 said:
They all do the same thing. They all do the same basic thing as a $2500 AR with a fancy name.
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Am I incorrect?

He didn't say he wanted a HiPoint. He said 'basic, no frills,' which means to me no piston, no gamer rig, not a patrol rifle. In fact, he said...

JCooperfan1911 said:
I just want an absolute basic gun with no extra doodads and in original government configuration. I plan to add a red dot, flashlight, sling, and that’s it.
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Although I don't know the OP, nor his financial status, I've often found 'money is no object' doesn't really mean that, because money is still money and there is no reason to be absurd with it. If money was no object with me, I would still go with a $500 rifle and $2000 in parts and ammos... it only makes sense.
 
JeeperCreeper said:
Like many others, I also have some experience with various grades and styles of AR.

If you want the short answer, BCM is my favorite. I run a lot of Bravo Company parts even on non-BCM builds.

Other turn key options are the IWI Zion 15. Or PSA Sabre. Or any other brands, I like Stag, I like Aero sometimes (same parent company as Stag). Colt sucks anymore but that will make people mad.

But truly, sometimes the "tactical" rifles are actually simpler than the "no grills GI models". Take a free float rail. Simpler, smoother, lighter, better than an old multi-piece plastic unit.

Or, if you want to stay boomer, there's this:

View attachment 1143747
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I built my carbine for less than half that price, Aero upper on an Anderson lower with mil-spec trigger group. It takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin' as they say.

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aAtpbOb_LqFS1M3vp2IDey12pByOuLer5wl6qK9EjifGQ67hmqvRepoL5mue29ZgUSzOw=w1135-h851-s-no?authuser=0.jpg
 
LMAO ... and folks wonder why I posted my recommendations and went with the vendors I did ... "in government configuration"

But yes, like many here I own (ed) more than one, of the current herd only one was not a homebuilt /parts gun, it is the Colt Carbine. I recommended, it is and was a investment.

Versus the Highpower/NRA match gun, the pistol AR in 9mm (colt mags) with a dedicated receiver, a 3-3/4" barrel (hopefully soon a SBR), the PMF full billet Paraire Dog gun, the other 4 in various formats for different purposes as well. We will not discuss the LuRue's, Rock River ,LBT's, PSA, Olympic Arms, Wilson Combat, Ruger, Bushmaster, BCM, Remington, Aero Precision, S&W, etc etc that I have owned that either was sold off or given away. That is not a dig on their quality, as that is not what caused them to go down the road. Some was to raise money for other things, some was to give to family members that really liked them. None was "bad" to cause me to part with them, nor so cherished that I couldn't part with them. Except one, it was a malfunctioning Piston AR that I got to run reliably, but the others outshot it in accuracy. It's problem was probably the barrel quality not the piston. I got it on a dare to get it to run, in the end I just disliked it. Now it's current owner thinks it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. They are /were all a tool to either hunt or defend with.

Looking at the current herd I have and what the OP stated he wanted only the Colt meets his objectives. I also mentioned the FN as they are the current vendor not Colt. The FN I think has a better barrel, than the Colt, that is a opinion based on past and current ownership.
The OP clearly stated he did not wish to build and desired a COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf).
 
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I jave 3 mid grade PSA that get out on a normal basis, with no problems at all. I've not run a expensive AR so have no comparison to one but I feel comfortable saying I could stand next you with one and plink with you all day. Save yourself some money and by more ammo.
Here's you a quick search of the colt A4...
Well I can't get the link to copy!!
Screenshot_20230405_211653_Chrome.jpg
 
In the swamp is correct.

cost is no object, you want the best of the best, you are buying Knights armament, LMT, MAYBE some others .

Knights did a lot of science stuff and research in the bolt and it’s a SOLID upgrade.
 
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