Best Combat Pump?
- Thread starter Panzerschwein
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Panzerschwein
member
Very cool, DesertVet!
How did you manage without an auto sear on that Winchester and Mossberg? According to member hq, those aren't "combat shotguns" at all and they don't have the most important feature, that being said auto sear.
For me, when I had my Model 12, I saw no benefit. It was fun but with 00 buckshot or slugs, the gun would climb fast when firing with the trigger held down and pumping the forend rapidly. Very hard to control.
Even with the spread of a shotgun I feel like hitting individual attackers would be much more difficult when firing this way. I can see some potential usefulness when firing in enfilade towards troops in a trench or something, especially from elevation, but rarely at other times.
Overall it just seems like a way to quickly dump your shells downrange, akin to a magazine dump form an automatic weapon; the old cliched term "spray and pray" comes to mind. With the limited capacity and slower reloading of the shotgun, it seems like a good way to get caught with an empty gun in your hands.
Seems snap shooting or otherwise aiming at individual targets and methodically reloading as you go would make more sense, letting the machine gunners or automatic rifleman take care of suppressive fire...
Not trying to be a jerk, just openly thinking critically about how important the auto sear is on a combat shotgun. Apparantly a big deal to some, not a problem for others. And DesertVet THANK YOU for your service and I can't imagine you were greatly hampered by those awesome shotguns with no auto sears.
Just me thinking aloud and sorry if I offended anyone, I'm sure I did somehow!!
LGS has new high polish blue police magnum with walnut stock and quality vented brown recoil pad. Very high quality shotgun. I didn't know they made blued police gun any more.
Deltaboy1984
Member
My 1982 870 customized with Choat stuff!
Jason_W
Member
I like the 870 mostly because I started hunting with one when I was 11 and it’s the gun I’m most familiar with.
It’s also the only gun I’ve fired under stress. Not real stress, but a partridge exploding from underfoot will definitely get the heart rate up.
It seems like all the big name manufacturers have a reliable pump gun. It all boils down to what feels right.
It’s also the only gun I’ve fired under stress. Not real stress, but a partridge exploding from underfoot will definitely get the heart rate up.
It seems like all the big name manufacturers have a reliable pump gun. It all boils down to what feels right.
I do love my Ithaca 37. I've been keeping an eye out for a DSPS model, but they are either scarce or ridiculously priced.
Slam firing is super fun but not necessary. I haven't ever fired buckshot out of mine, but I haven't had much difficulty keeping birdshot on target. It's all in the follow through.
Reportedly, the Navy SEALs had great results with the Ithaca during Vietnam.
Slam firing is super fun but not necessary. I haven't ever fired buckshot out of mine, but I haven't had much difficulty keeping birdshot on target. It's all in the follow through.
Reportedly, the Navy SEALs had great results with the Ithaca during Vietnam.
Blkhrt13
Member
This whole post is just a wild invite to a flame off. But for my two cents the 590 cruiser has been there forever. I know there are so many PG critics but I’ve been running it since I was about 13 or 14 and I’m just comfortable with how it works. I have had a whole lot of folks say I’m wrong but I haven’t had any volunteer to see if I miss. It’s full of mid brass 9 pellet. I can hop a soup can 4 times before it’s mush. 25 years of reliability.
vba
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- Oct 22, 2008
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- 345
I've got a Remington Police 870 that is just flat out a smooth shooting gun.
My second shotgun is a Remington 870 Tactical that I've "customized" to bring is up to Police standards. Both guns shoot where I aim and are utterly reliable with every load I have tried.
I shoot mostly slugs and both guns tear out the black at 25 yards. The black is only 4 to 5 inches in diameter.
Oops, I forgot my 1975 Wingmaster that has also been brought up to Police specs.
My second shotgun is a Remington 870 Tactical that I've "customized" to bring is up to Police standards. Both guns shoot where I aim and are utterly reliable with every load I have tried.
I shoot mostly slugs and both guns tear out the black at 25 yards. The black is only 4 to 5 inches in diameter.
Oops, I forgot my 1975 Wingmaster that has also been brought up to Police specs.
I am curious, that left eject? I don't see a ejection port on the side there and I am not aware of any Winchesters that are bottom eject.
entropy
Member
The bolt is the same color as the action, there is an ejection port on the RH side; It's a standard Win. 1200 or 1300.
The Evangelist Cowboy
Member
Mossberg is my preference, Remington will work , Ithaca is what I want.
I have experience with Rem 870, Moss 500, Ithaca 37. All are good shotguns, all available in or readily made into combat trim.
I still own Rem 870s and Ithaca 37s and are in-use as HD guns as I write this.
I do NOT like the tang safety on the Mossbergs. It is impossible to use with pistol-grip aftermarket stocks with your hand on the stock. Plus it needs fixing straight from the factory. Plus all my other repeating shotguns (rem 870, Rem 1100, Ithaca 37) have safeties adjacent to the trigger guard.
Police turn-in Rem 870 Police or Wingmasters made up as tactical guns are still common and pretty cheap. I like them a little old & worn, as they are slick-running shotguns by then. Rem 870P/Wingmaster is like a box of legos: build as you like. And Choate is your friend.
The Ithaca 37 is one sweet and elegant gun. Can be had in HD or "hog" variants new or in any number of "combat" configurations old. Great guns. My personal HD gun is a DSPS.
I still own Rem 870s and Ithaca 37s and are in-use as HD guns as I write this.
I do NOT like the tang safety on the Mossbergs. It is impossible to use with pistol-grip aftermarket stocks with your hand on the stock. Plus it needs fixing straight from the factory. Plus all my other repeating shotguns (rem 870, Rem 1100, Ithaca 37) have safeties adjacent to the trigger guard.
Police turn-in Rem 870 Police or Wingmasters made up as tactical guns are still common and pretty cheap. I like them a little old & worn, as they are slick-running shotguns by then. Rem 870P/Wingmaster is like a box of legos: build as you like. And Choate is your friend.
The Ithaca 37 is one sweet and elegant gun. Can be had in HD or "hog" variants new or in any number of "combat" configurations old. Great guns. My personal HD gun is a DSPS.
crestoncowboy
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- Joined
- Feb 22, 2011
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- 3,307
If you ever have a jam with an Ithaca 37 you might change your mind about it. The only shotgun ive had to clear that was worse was a lever action Winchester. Neither give any access to get to anything and both have a busy area where hull meets next round
The only thing my nova does better than the others is give you the option of pumping out a round without loading another via the button on the forearm, which is rather useless and possibly dangerous if it were to mess up (never heard of it happening but why risk it)
Both are great hunting shotguns and i hunt with both but I wouldn't consider them nor myself the most combat worthy either. Sure they may have been used for that purpose but so have sticks. The 870/500 are better options imo. Cheaper, simpler, lighter, proven, and as reliable or more so than the more expensive options. I like the tang safety better but I call it a draw between those two.
The only thing my nova does better than the others is give you the option of pumping out a round without loading another via the button on the forearm, which is rather useless and possibly dangerous if it were to mess up (never heard of it happening but why risk it)
Both are great hunting shotguns and i hunt with both but I wouldn't consider them nor myself the most combat worthy either. Sure they may have been used for that purpose but so have sticks. The 870/500 are better options imo. Cheaper, simpler, lighter, proven, and as reliable or more so than the more expensive options. I like the tang safety better but I call it a draw between those two.
The Evangelist Cowboy
Member
Oh man that's the dream, an actual Winchester 1897 trench gun, may need to win the lottery for that one but aan can dream if nothing else.
JeffG
Member
Mossberg ATI, or the Moss 590A1. Rough and ready. Dual action bars, skelotonized lift spoon, great finish.
Milkmaster
Member
ITHACA 37 for me. Light and drops the empty hulls at my feet and keeps out the dirt well. An 870 is my second choice. My third choice would be the Win 1300 Defender.
crestoncowboy
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- Feb 22, 2011
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- 3,307
but im not sure that where there hulls are ejected are of any consequence in a "combat pump"
Deltaboy1984
Member
870
I looked over one of them police turn in 870 Police Magnums. Inside it looked 100%. The only wear was on outside of aluminum trigger guard. One got professional grade 4 shell side carrier, sling swivels, jumbo safety, soft non-stick recol pad (the kind Remington now put on premium grade guns), cerakote finish. All that for $250.
MADDOG
Member
I still rely on my old 12ga. Winchester Defender. It's very dependable and easy to carry.
John Joseph
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870 Wing Master
EIB0879
Member
My father had a Remington Model 11 when he was a State Policeman many years ago. He used it once on someone and it was effective.
When I was an Cadre Instructor for the LA ARNG SRT teams we used a mix of Mossbergs and Rem 870s.
When I was an Cadre Instructor for the LA ARNG SRT teams we used a mix of Mossbergs and Rem 870s.
1MoreFord
Member
I don't understand the notion of pumps for self defense. Must be the same line of thought that causes people to like revolvers over semi autos. My preference for SD shotguns runs to Browning A5's and Winchester Super-X Model 1's. I have one of each with extended mag tubes. Great guns that have never missed a beat.
entropy
Member
The notion is that, like revolvers, pumps rarely jam. When they do, it is almost always operator error. (Short-shucking) This can be eliminated with training. The manual of arms is simpler. A pump will digest anything you can scrounge up to feed it, though it shares the weakness semis do with steel-based hulls, unless the chamber is polished. There are 2, maybe 3 semi shotguns I'd trust for HD/SD. Remington 11/87, Benelli M2/4, M1014, and Saiga. A5's are good guns, but to change loads, you have to disassemble it to change rings, or leave them out, which causes excess recoil and cracked forends.
nulook45
Member
Actualy i have 3 in order the Remington 870 they are solid built like a tank and lots of parts to customize . 2: Mosberg 500 light weight good gun but aluminum wont last as long as steel and im not a fan of some of the barrels being made out of country . last 3: Winchester 1300 Defender with a 7 shot tube and a 20 inch heavy barrel it soaks up alot of the recoil but you play he** finding a longer barrel and it is cyl choke only no screw in tubes
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