demusn1979
Member
old ones rock!
rem model 11 1927mfg.
rem model 11 1927mfg.
Best defense reliability: pump or semi-auto?
- Thread starter DHart
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DHart
Member
Timker... yes, the sxs are nice, got a couple of them. Only thing is I don't like to have to reload so often!
Preacherman
Member
I've seen many semi-auto shotguns fail under stress, particularly on courses where lots of shooting takes place (for example, see my review of Mas Ayoob's LFI-2 and -3 courses, where all the semi-auto's failed at least once in sandy, dusty conditions - click here for the review). That's one reason why I've always relied on pump-guns for defensive use.
However, I'm willing to admit that modern semi-auto shotguns are significantly better in the reliability department than earlier models, PROVIDED THAT full-patch loads are used. I continue to see many failures when reduced-recoil loads are fired.
If I were buying a semi-auto defensive shotgun today, I'd choose the Winchester SX2 in its competition version, or the FN police semi-auto (shorter and lighter - a copy of the SX2). These seem to be the most reliable semi-autos encountered on the ranges I frequent.
However, I'm willing to admit that modern semi-auto shotguns are significantly better in the reliability department than earlier models, PROVIDED THAT full-patch loads are used. I continue to see many failures when reduced-recoil loads are fired.
If I were buying a semi-auto defensive shotgun today, I'd choose the Winchester SX2 in its competition version, or the FN police semi-auto (shorter and lighter - a copy of the SX2). These seem to be the most reliable semi-autos encountered on the ranges I frequent.
DHart
Member
Preacherman.... the Win Super X2 Practical looks like a great gun! As well as the FN variant.
The other thing I often hear is that the semi-autos need more consciencious cleaning and maintenance than the pumps do. But given good maintenance and good ammo, the semi-autos are as reliable as anything. Those who are lax in cleaning/maint. efforts are better off with pumps. Me? I fall in the "anal-clean it if it needs it or not" camp. I like to maintain my guns very well indeed. I think I'll get along with a semi-auto just fine.
I bought a NIB Rem 1100 Competition Master today (on GoingBroker... won't see it for a week or so). Gotta say, it sure looks like a wonderful shotgun, great for 3-gun competition and other tasks. I'm going to try to find an 18" barrel and youth stocks for it... to be able to adapt it to CQB use with 00 buck.
The other thing I often hear is that the semi-autos need more consciencious cleaning and maintenance than the pumps do. But given good maintenance and good ammo, the semi-autos are as reliable as anything. Those who are lax in cleaning/maint. efforts are better off with pumps. Me? I fall in the "anal-clean it if it needs it or not" camp.
I like to maintain my guns very well indeed. I think I'll get along with a semi-auto just fine.I bought a NIB Rem 1100 Competition Master today (on GoingBroker... won't see it for a week or so). Gotta say, it sure looks like a wonderful shotgun, great for 3-gun competition and other tasks. I'm going to try to find an 18" barrel and youth stocks for it... to be able to adapt it to CQB use with 00 buck.
DougW
Member
Preacherman, while I understand your point on reliability, I would have to ask a few questions to justify your stance. Were the semi shotguns cleaned thoroughly before each student used them, or was residue and dust allowed to work all day long? Were the shot guns the only weapons that had some sort of failure during the course? Were Imediate Action Drills part of the course cirriculum?
I have seen range rental guns have failures when being used since they are usually not clean to begin with. We have all heard of the early failures of M16's and SA80's in the desert of Iraq. Dirt and dust contamination and maintanence must be considered with any weapon in that type of environment.
My contention is that each person must descide the tactical use of their weapon system, and determine if sludge, dust, grime, mud, and rain will affect their ability to operate the weapon successfully, weather in a hunting of self protection mode. All of my weapons are cleaned thoroughly, and I have even been known to clean them during down times in a match of some other training course. But that is just me.
Again, I am not discounting what your review said. I am only trying to establish the facts and reason for the semi shotguns failures. I do appreciate your position.
I have seen range rental guns have failures when being used since they are usually not clean to begin with. We have all heard of the early failures of M16's and SA80's in the desert of Iraq. Dirt and dust contamination and maintanence must be considered with any weapon in that type of environment.
My contention is that each person must descide the tactical use of their weapon system, and determine if sludge, dust, grime, mud, and rain will affect their ability to operate the weapon successfully, weather in a hunting of self protection mode. All of my weapons are cleaned thoroughly, and I have even been known to clean them during down times in a match of some other training course. But that is just me.
Again, I am not discounting what your review said. I am only trying to establish the facts and reason for the semi shotguns failures. I do appreciate your position.
fecmech
Member
Dhart--When you look at autos for purchase check out the Beretta at Wallyworld, the 3900 I think( approx $500.). It is the current version of their 390 which is a very reliable shotgun. I purchased mine(390) in 99 and shoot clays every weekend. The gun currently has 40k+ rounds thru it and being the lazy guy that I am it gets cleaned when it fails to feed. That usually happens somewhere around 2500 rounds. I shot an 870 pump for years shooting skeet but for defensive shooting an auto would be my first choice. Nick
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