Semi Auto Home Defense Shotguns

[Balrog]

I am kicking around the idea of a semi auto home defense shotgun, and have narrowed things down to the Benelli M2 or Remington 1100 tactical.

I have decided against the M4 because of its high price, and I see no particular advantage to it otherwise. I am not interested in a pump shotgun of any kind. I am not interested in a Saiga 12.

So between the Benelli M2 and Remington 1100 tactical, which is the better gun? The Benelli is about 400 bucks more, but is it worth the price difference?

 

[AC45ACP]

I would go with the benelli!! I think there worth every penny!!
My second choice would be a FN SLP then a Mossy SPX.
I'm thinking of adding a SLP to the group.

 

[jmr40]

I have, and like the Benelli better but it may not be worth $400 more. I've also used both the 1100 and 11-87 and think they are very under-rated by lots of folks.

How bad do you need the $400?

 

[oneounceload]

Personally, I would want to try both of these out before buying, especially since it sounds like you want the Benelli, but cost might be a major concern. Once you try them both with an open mind, get the one you like the best; that fits you the best; and that YOU feel most comfortable with.

After all, you said this was a HD gun, so functionality is of prime concern. If you buy one brand over another strictly based on price, but you aren't 100% confident in its ability to perform, what have you gained but a huge dose of doubt - in a HD scenario, that's the LAST thing you want creeping into your head.

Buy the quality gun you want - the price only hurts once instead if buying a bunch of cheaper ones that don't - you'll spend (or should) more on ammo and targets than you did on the gun

 

[Youngster]

I'd go with the Benelli by far, quality and handling wise they are just on a much higher level compared to the 1100 family. A few hundred dollars is nothing when you're talking about a potentially lifetime, lifesaving purchase.

 

[Balrog]

How is the Comfortech stock on the Benelli? Is it much of an improvement over the standard stock? I have shot a Benelli Montefeltro 12 gauge with a normal stock, and did not feel recoil was a problem.

Also, how important are ghost ring sights over rifle sights on a defense shotgun at inside the house type distances?

 

[oneounceload]

Also, how important are ghost ring sights over rifle sights on a defense shotgun at inside the house type distances?

Unless you live in something that Oprah does, distances are close - you point a shotgun, not aim it. As long as you are sure of your target (it's not one of the kids, etc), sights are, IMO, not needed for HD distances inside the home - PRACTICE is what is needed - this is a shotgun not a rifle - the dynamics are somewhat different in that regard

 

[Mr. T]

H & r sa-128

 

[Sir Aardvark]

Please be aware that the 1100 uses little rubber O-rings in its gas system to function correctly. If the O-ring fails then the gun won't work.

I've noticed that most THR members who own the 1100 do not seem overly concerned about this, because they are aware of it and make checking the integrity of the O-ring part of their normal maintenance schedule.

This was brought up in a post a while back about using the 1100 for 3-gun, and one guy posted a picture of a bag full of O-rings that he brings to every match - if one fails he has plenty of extra.

The Huntington Beach, CA Police Dept. refused to adopt the 1100 as a department issued shotgun because of the O-ring issue.

Of course, there is going to be someone who will post, "There is no O-ring issue!!!; My 1100 has over 10,000 shells through it with no problem whatsoever!!!"

Here is an old thread on the subject of where to pick up extra O-rings:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=294142

 

[Balrog]

Of course, there is going to be someone who will post, "There is no O-ring issue!!!; My 1100 has over 10,000 shells through it with no problem whatsoever!!!"

Yea I agree there is no O ring issue. I shot the same 20 gauge Remington 1100 from 1978 to 2005 with the same O ring on it. I changed it only after I had read on the internet that this part was prone to fail.

So I have no problem with the reliability of the 1100, just cant decide if that is what I want, or if I would rather spend more for the Beretta.

Am I correct that the M2 uses the same recoil system as the Montefeltro? Is the recoil similar?

 

[lobo9er]

you point a shotgun, not aim it.

Thats of course true unless you have rifle sights, then if you like you can aim.

 

[bushmaster1313]

If both fit your needs in regards to reliability I would go with the American product.

 

[roo_ster]

Balog:

How's your recoil tolerance?

One reason I like my Rem 1100 12ga is that its subjective recoil is very soft. Full-power buck & slugs are no biggie.

I used a buddy's M2 and the subjective recoil is much greater. Ouch. Might as well shoot a pump...and the recoil system does not lend itself to any remedy like a pump might.

Also, when I shot my buddy's M2, I was shooting a steel plate rack. I was significantly slower with the Benelli on multiple targets due to the recoil (relative to my 1100).

Best thing would be able to shoot similarly-configured examples back-to-back. Maybe the recoil is not a biggie for you.

 

[Gozer]

I have a Benelli M2 Tactical. Not with the ComforTech stock, but the standard synthetic with the pistol grip. It is an excellent platform. Completely reliable, and comfortable enough to shoot all day long.

I personally chose the M2 because of the recoil-driven system (I like the simplicity it offers over a gas cycle for a HD platform), and so far it has lived up to every claim and then some.

As far as the ghost ring sights - as others have said, at typical HD ranges it's macht nicht. For longer range shots they work well for aiming. Not so useful for skeet and small bird hunting because you will find yourself aiming rather than pointing, but I have other guns for those jobs.

 

[unwise11]

i dont trust autoloading shotguns. ive never seen one that doesnt stovepipe eventually.
i like my winchester 1200 pump. reminds me to unload it before i leave home.

 

[Balrog]

I do not think the M2 recoil will be a problem. I beleive it uses the same recoil system as the Montefeltro, and I have shot a 12g Montefeltro a lot, never had recoil issues with it.

I have never had jamming or stove pipe issues with Benellis or Remington 1100s.

 

[ArmedBear]

The Benelli operating system allows you to easily clear or load the chamber while leaving the magazine untouched. The advantages this has for making a gun both safe and ready for defensive use are obvious.

The 1100 can be coaxed to do it, but it's not designed for it, and it's neither convenient nor reliable to do it. That's one of several reasons I got rid of mine. This issue comes up when you're hunting with it, too.

 

[Captcurt]

Will you have a shootout like on TV? 50 rounds per gun?

Guys, I think that you are putting too much into this. Just how many times are you going to shoot this gun if there is a breakin? I wouldn't worry about the recoil, type of action or if the gun had a rubber O- ring. I would spend more time in getting familiar with the gun and on choosing the proper load for it. Then I would shoot it once.

But that is OMHO.

 

[GunTech]

Benelli.

No gas system to worry about. The inertia system means all the crud goes out the barrel. As an experiment, I didn't clean my M1S90 for an entire year. Shot multiple matches using 00 buck and slug. Never had a problem.

Some people don't trust autoloaders. Some people carry revolvers for the same reason. If you use quality ammo and a decent gun, autoshotguns can be exceptionally reliable.

To date I have had 2 failures to fire in my Benelli at comps - both related to ammo. A quick yank on the charging handle and no problem.

I do recommend an oversized charging handle. If you do need to cycle the action under stress and in a hurry, the factor handle can be harder to hit, particularly if like me you shoot righty and use your left hand to clear a FTF.

 

[ArmedBear]

Some people don't trust autoloaders. Some people carry revolvers for the same reason.

Personally, in practical use, I've had pump shotguns and autoloaders fail to feed. IME, the autoloader gets the nod as "most likely to be cleared and fired immediately".

The worst situation, where the gun was locked up and unusable, was with an 870. The worst situation I've had with an autoloader was solved by cycling the action -- which BTW supports your recommendation of an oversized charging handle, and I think also a competition-style oversized release button, for high-stress use.

If you've ever had a shell stuck under the lifter of an 870, you'll change your mind really quickly about how rock-solid reliable it is. A shell stuck in the chamber is no fun, either.

WRT pistols, I have both autoloaders and revolvers. While I would compare a good modern autoloading shotgun to a defensive pistol, I would not compare a pump to a quality revolver, which, if in good condition, will fire each time you pull the trigger until it's empty. There are more ways for a pump gun to get boogered up, in real-world use.

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

I wouldn't get hung up over recoil operated or gas operated. Gas operated guns work fine if you keep them clean - and why wouldn't you? I have an FN SLP as I wanted (need for medical reasons) the least recoil possible in a reliable, fast operating platform. The FN meets those criteria.

However, I took it a step further to reduce felt recoil and improve reliability. The first thing I did was change the manufacturer's recoil pad for a Kick Eez. Then I lubed the action with a petroleum-based gun oil and shot medium to heavy rounds for 200 rounds with the heavy gas piston to seat the bolt in the receiver and break-in the action. Then I cleaned the barrel, action, and piston, and relubed the action. I shot two hundred rounds of medium to light loads (1-1/8 and 1 ounce) with the heavy gas piston in place. For the last 50 rounds I randomly intermixed the loads.

As a final test I shot intermixed slugs, #1 and 00 buckshot, and 1-ounce #7 birdshot loads. Between myself and friend we put another 50 rounds of mixed loads without a failure to feed, including several "speed runs" to see how fast we could make the action operate. We could get 5 hulls in the air simultaneously through three test runs.

I then cleaned the barrel, action, and the piston, and took the gun and the two gas pistons to SRM to have them install a Sure Cycle system and do their general tune up that includes: taking the springs and O-rings out of the pistons and sealing the pistons, working on the extractor, lapping the bolt, replacing the magazine spring and follower, and changing the loading gate spring.

After getting the gun home, I cleaned the gun, and lubed the action with a light coat of SLiP 2000 EWL grease, and everything else that needed lubing with SLiP 2000 EWL oil.

The Sure Cycle system has improved the gun cycle speed and reduced the recoil a bit further. This has helped in keeping the gun on target better while allowing the gun to function with intermixed loads of light to heavy. It will put 6 hulls in the air simultaneously if you can pull the trigger that fast.

Taking the springs and O-rings out of the pistons has eliminated failure points while the Sure Cycle system and work on other portions of the gun have improved feed and cycling reliability while reducing felt recoil.

The questions to ask yourself is how reliable and controllable does the gun need to be for you to feel comfortable? After breaking in the FN, and with the additional work and the testing, I know the gun is reliable and easy to keep aimed on target. All you have to do is keep it clean - and that's not difficult.

 

[Balrog]

Would it be easier to find replacement parts for an 1100? They seem to be everywhere, while M2 parts might be harder to find.

Is that a valid consideration?

 

[roo_ster]

Hmm, there is that.

I was able to go to the nearest 'smith and get new trigger group pins and mag springs with no muss for my 1100 & 870.

But, nowadays I have a backup HD shotgun and can take my sweet time while one gun is down. If you have a backup, immediate parts availability oughtn't be a big deal.

FWIW, Summit Gun broker has 3 or 4 blue & walnut 1100s on sale for less than $400 each. BYOT (Bring Your Own Tacticality). IOW, spend a little more $$$ to tactify to your specs.

 

[GunTech]

Parts for Benellis are like hen's teeth. If this is a consideration (spare parts availability) the Benelli is not your friend. I mentioned on another thread I have been waiting over a year for a spare barrel for my M1S90.