Best Hunting Caliber?
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thaumaturgist
Member
Why is it that everytime someone asks for a cartridge recommendation, someone always starts preaching the merits of the .223 on big game... and yes, hogs are big game. In a hunting situation, shots may be presented from many different angles. If you must put a bullet through the thick, tough hide and shoulder blade of a large hog, you will be sorely disappointed if all you have is a .223. Yes, some people use them and anyone can find anicdotal evidence and pictures. Bottom line is that even the people who make and market small centerfires like the .223 only recommend them for varmints and predators. That should tell you something. The .308 penetrates better and does more damage than the .243 and certainly more than the .223. That being the case, the animal will die quicker with the larger bullet. The argument that a .223 will kill just as quickly and humanely as a .308 if the shot is in the vitals is simply wrong and anyone who has taken much big game would know that. A .30 or .45 caliber wound channel is noticably more effective than a .22 caliber wound.
MCgunner
Member
Well, the .308 has more power. I suppose that's squirrelhunter's meaning. It's got about 400-500 fps on the .30-30 with a given bullet weight and equal barrel length. But, yes, the .30-30 is a fine hog getter. I'd shoot the 160 partition if after big hogs.
AStone
Member
^ What he said.
From 2009.Mar.18 to 2009.Mar.23 I tried to count rifles held and used in a Portuguese hunting forum. Our most common targets here are wild boars (sus scrofa) and sometimes red deer (cervus elaphus).
And this is the result:
Legend:
Title of the graphic: Calibers held and used
“cal. 12” - shotgun caliber 12 (used in big game by who doesn't have a rifle)
“outros” - others
The guys with the .270w and 6,7x57 use it to hunt “corsa” (capreolus capreolus), that is the smallest European antelope (about 18 to 29 kg.), and have also bigger calibers to hunt wild boars.
You can see the original poll here:
http://www.santohuberto.com/forum/forum_detalhes.asp?ID=12685&Origem=12550#ini
This guy has two 9,3x62 and one .300wm:
http://www.santohuberto.com/forum/forum_detalhes.asp?ID=12553&Origem=12550#ini
This buy has two .300wm, one 9,3x64 and one 7,64
http://www.santohuberto.com/forum/forum_detalhes.asp?ID=12555&Origem=12550#ini
Why do we use calibers like the 30.06 sprg. and larger calibers in Europe to kill wild boars? Because we need the versatility and the stopping power those calibers offer in night hunts and in daytime driven hunts. They deliver a clean and quick death, allowing us to retrieve a very high percentage of wounded animals. And we avoid most of nasty surprises resulting from close encounters with dangerous boars. Can we kill a wild boar with a smaller caliber? Sure. In fact, I think that we can probably kill a wild boar with a sharp umbrella. But when I sit my ass in the forest at night I usually grab my 30.06 and leave my umbrella at home. I bet you would too, lololol
Ps: If after 10 or 15 visualizations of the portuguese forum you are asked to login, just clean your internet cookies.
And this is the result:
Legend:
Title of the graphic: Calibers held and used
“cal. 12” - shotgun caliber 12 (used in big game by who doesn't have a rifle)
“outros” - others
The guys with the .270w and 6,7x57 use it to hunt “corsa” (capreolus capreolus), that is the smallest European antelope (about 18 to 29 kg.), and have also bigger calibers to hunt wild boars.
You can see the original poll here:
http://www.santohuberto.com/forum/forum_detalhes.asp?ID=12685&Origem=12550#ini
This guy has two 9,3x62 and one .300wm:
http://www.santohuberto.com/forum/forum_detalhes.asp?ID=12553&Origem=12550#ini
This buy has two .300wm, one 9,3x64 and one 7,64
http://www.santohuberto.com/forum/forum_detalhes.asp?ID=12555&Origem=12550#ini
Why do we use calibers like the 30.06 sprg. and larger calibers in Europe to kill wild boars? Because we need the versatility and the stopping power those calibers offer in night hunts and in daytime driven hunts. They deliver a clean and quick death, allowing us to retrieve a very high percentage of wounded animals. And we avoid most of nasty surprises resulting from close encounters with dangerous boars. Can we kill a wild boar with a smaller caliber? Sure. In fact, I think that we can probably kill a wild boar with a sharp umbrella. But when I sit my ass in the forest at night I usually grab my 30.06 and leave my umbrella at home. I bet you would too, lololol
Ps: If after 10 or 15 visualizations of the portuguese forum you are asked to login, just clean your internet cookies.
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FLAvalanche
Member
LOL. If it will make you feel better MCGunner I'm moving up to a .50 Beowulf for my pig gun.
The only ones that seem to be disappointed is all the hogs in my freezer. There's three of them in there now and I've taken over 40 hogs in the past 2 years with .223 with over half of them being shoulder shots and NOT ONE single hog making it more than 30 yards.
Seems it kills just as quickly for me...Maybe you're doing something wrong with your .223 to see slower kills. I dunno.
I've killed hogs with 12 gauge slugs, .30-30, .308, .223, .357 Magnum, .45 ACP, .45 GAP, .22, .270, bow and arrow and with a knife. I hunt hogs in a 60 acre fenced in old oragne grove with property on all sides that belong to someone else so I can't wound hogs I need to drop them. I've yet to have a hog make it out of that tiny field with anything. 60lb hogs to 400lb hogs. The only thing that's come close to making it out of the field was with my bow.
Maybe we've just sissy hogs down here.
Maverick223
Member
Solution: use a Mosin...you might miss, but at least you have a 4ft. long pig sticker if you do.
In hindsight I think a 7mm-08Rem. would be the best cartridge for the OP.
FLAvalanche
Member
You mean pole vault?
Maverick223
Member
That too...though I find that their best role is as a tomato stake.
Sheepdog1968
Member
Per the OP and the types of animals, a .308 would be fine. Another potential alternative would be a 30 30 lever action with either the standard blunt nosed bullets or Hornady's Leverevolution rounds. Some people may say it's not enough for hogs, others will say it is.
I think we got to far ahead, the crazyboi only asked let me quote him "I wanted to know what caliber would be best to hunt varmint (Hares, Coyote) and also be able to take down a boar." this is why the whole .223 came up, because it is fine caliber for varmints and its fine caliber to take piglets while varmint hunting, just don't use varmint bullets they are to explosive and will not penetrate, but good FMJ or SMK will do just fine....
Quote: “I guess people feel safer when they got 30 cal rifle pointed at the hog, because they do charge sometimes at the shooter... “
It’s not only that. In some places we have high and dense vegetation and it is really easy to lose a boar if you don’t know which way he went after the shoot, especially if he was among others or if you shoot at night.
In areas like that, the only thing that it isn’t green and brown is the damn road an the sky.
And even if you find a field, the bushes are never too far (that’s why the boars are there). If the boar gets out of the field after the shot, you better have sun in the sky or a real good dog, because even tracking blood lights or high power cree led torches may let you down.
Boars with thorax shots and pierced vitals can run for more than 100 meters, even if hit by a 9,3mm bullet fired from a rifle.
Quote: ”I think we got to far ahead, the crazyboi only asked let me quote him "I wanted to know what caliber would be best to hunt varmint (Hares, Coyote) and also be able to take down a boar." this is why the whole .223 came up, because it is fine caliber for varmints and its fine caliber to take piglets while varmint hunting, just don't use varmint bullets they are to explosive and want penetrate good, but good FMJ or SMK will do just fine....”
If we need to have a gun for different targets (varmints and boars), I thinks it’s probably a good idea to chose the adequate caliber to the bigger one, not only because it can fight back but because it’s the one that you really like to see in the freezer.
It’s not only that. In some places we have high and dense vegetation and it is really easy to lose a boar if you don’t know which way he went after the shoot, especially if he was among others or if you shoot at night.
In areas like that, the only thing that it isn’t green and brown is the damn road an the sky.
And even if you find a field, the bushes are never too far (that’s why the boars are there). If the boar gets out of the field after the shot, you better have sun in the sky or a real good dog, because even tracking blood lights or high power cree led torches may let you down.
Boars with thorax shots and pierced vitals can run for more than 100 meters, even if hit by a 9,3mm bullet fired from a rifle.
Quote: ”I think we got to far ahead, the crazyboi only asked let me quote him "I wanted to know what caliber would be best to hunt varmint (Hares, Coyote) and also be able to take down a boar." this is why the whole .223 came up, because it is fine caliber for varmints and its fine caliber to take piglets while varmint hunting, just don't use varmint bullets they are to explosive and want penetrate good, but good FMJ or SMK will do just fine....”
If we need to have a gun for different targets (varmints and boars), I thinks it’s probably a good idea to chose the adequate caliber to the bigger one, not only because it can fight back but because it’s the one that you really like to see in the freezer.
I think we getting to the closer, if he doesn't wan't to use one there plenty other ones mentioned here, like 6mm, 6.5, 270 and 7mm, 30 caliber at-last... all will kill boars and pigs alike, if he decides to go with 308 then I would suggest varmint twist like 1:12, I did mentioned 270 win and its capability to shoot light 6.8 mm bullets and heavy 277 bullets, so I thought it would be perfect solution, but since it is long action cartridge, it didn't suit well the needs, Maverick suggested 7mm 08 that's another great one on the list. I can think of another one and you might going to like it, its 270 WSM or 7mm WSM, think about it ;-)
FLAvalanche
Member
Hand grenades. We know those work on rabbits...
qajaq59
Member
I can't see arguing about it. Most anything mentioned above is going to drop a hog. They don't need much killing..... If you do a whole bunch of aiming.
thaumaturgist
Member
RE: I can't see arguing about it. Most anything mentioned above is going to drop a hog. They don't need much killing..... If you do a whole bunch of aiming.
I don't know what planet you hunt hog on, but on earth pigs do indeed require much killing. And FLAvalanche, I'm sure that you have killed pigs with your kid's cap gun, but you seem to be the only person on earth that can hit a pig and guarantee that it goes nowhere. The last one I shot was with a .500 S&W Magnum through both lungs and it fell, got up and ran about 50 yards. It died in brush so thick that we didnt feel safe going in until the next day. Anyone who says that they can guaranatee a big game animal drops or only runs a few yards with a lung/shoulder shot simply isn't leveling with us. All you .223 fans, go ahead and spin your yarns. You're either not as experienced as you claim or you own a magical, mystical lightning-bolt of a .223 that the rest of us don't possess. It isn't legal in many places for big game, no professional hunters use or recommend it on big game, the makers and marketers don't recommend it on big game, and hunting journalists don't recommend it. So the vast majority of the most experienced hunters in the world are either wrong or the few of you are. I know who my money is on.
I don't know what planet you hunt hog on, but on earth pigs do indeed require much killing. And FLAvalanche, I'm sure that you have killed pigs with your kid's cap gun, but you seem to be the only person on earth that can hit a pig and guarantee that it goes nowhere. The last one I shot was with a .500 S&W Magnum through both lungs and it fell, got up and ran about 50 yards. It died in brush so thick that we didnt feel safe going in until the next day. Anyone who says that they can guaranatee a big game animal drops or only runs a few yards with a lung/shoulder shot simply isn't leveling with us. All you .223 fans, go ahead and spin your yarns. You're either not as experienced as you claim or you own a magical, mystical lightning-bolt of a .223 that the rest of us don't possess. It isn't legal in many places for big game, no professional hunters use or recommend it on big game, the makers and marketers don't recommend it on big game, and hunting journalists don't recommend it. So the vast majority of the most experienced hunters in the world are either wrong or the few of you are. I know who my money is on.
I have heard many stories on how 270 WIN is insufficient to hunt deer and the main reason to switch from it to 300 WM or 338 and whatever... The main reason that bullets from 270 bounce off and do not penetrate "thick" deer skin. I killed lots of deer with 270 and not on the single occasion it failed to penetrate the skin. Same argument is here on how 223 not suited to hunt pigs, so lets cut this wild chase and recommend 300 WM or even better 338 WM or Federal... just feel sorry for poor wabits )
)Purgatory
Member
With all due respect, DIM, I am sincerely curious. Do you have even ONE example of a story where .270 didn't work on Deer or anyone specific claiming that it does not?
All I have ever heard about the .270 is how great it is on anything and everything the .30-06 is effective on. -And, though that's probably debatable, it places it pretty safely inside the capability of killing Deer.
Right?
Wrong?
Shoot me?
All I have ever heard about the .270 is how great it is on anything and everything the .30-06 is effective on. -And, though that's probably debatable, it places it pretty safely inside the capability of killing Deer.
Right?
Wrong?
Shoot me?
Purgatory, in fact I did come across such claims in the past year or so, on this forum, sounded like deer wearing armor and 270 was no longer suitable I took it as joke, but it was the reason to go higher on the caliber. Myself I use 270 all the time, well sometimes I do use 308, I was thinking to try my 223, my state has no law against it, just my slow twist on 223 which is considered varmint is stopping me. One of these days I will re-barrel it for faster twist, then I would have riffle which can do all, shoot varmints and hunt deer.
I took it as joke, but it was the reason to go higher on the caliber. Myself I use 270 all the time, well sometimes I do use 308, I was thinking to try my 223, my state has no law against it, just my slow twist on 223 which is considered varmint is stopping me. One of these days I will re-barrel it for faster twist, then I would have riffle which can do all, shoot varmints and hunt deer.
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FLAvalanche
Member
No, actually I'm not. Look around and there are plenty of people on this very forum alone that seem to be able to hunt hog effectively with ARs.
Seeing as there are plenty of people here that don't seem to have a problem killing hogs with their ARs maybe ours are fine and yours is deffective?
Even with 270 I had many deer which would run about 100 yards were they expire, usually that's both lungs and complete penetration, lately I reserve my shots for CNS, where I hunt its hilly terrain and buck are well fed and carrying them uphill are not fun... But they do run, I don't see why not, they have nothing else to loose but their life...
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