qajaq59
Member
Try waiting until you have a decent shot right behind his ear and you wont have to worry about chasing him into the palmettos. And if you can't get a good shot don't pull the trigger.
Best Hunting Caliber?
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Thing is where I live, there are no wild piglets, not in my neck of the woods, however state did warn us that they are spreading, so we hunters must be on high alert and keep their numbers down. Since I can only take one buck during regular season, I'm doing all the varmint shooting I can get with my 223, so if I see any sign of bacon I will not hesitate, although I have slow twist. I successfully shot them in Florida with 22LR right behind their ears...
thaumaturgist
Member
Wow, so the trick is to just wait until you have a decent shot right behind his ear and you wont have to worry about chasing him into the palmettos and if you can't get a good shot don't pull the trigger. That's fine for domesticated hogs in a pen, but that shot is a difficult shot that you will miss someday and have a horrifically wounded hog that will get away and suffer. Your comment also begs the question: if you can reliably pull this shot off on a regular basis, why aren't you using a .22 LR? I'll say this again: professional hunters, gun companies, ammo companies, and sports writers, all of whom make a living at this, recommend and use larger calibers than a .223 on big game. A couple of you obviously are expert marksmen and amazing hunters, exhibiting more hunting and shooting skill than the professionals who do it everyday. So why are you wasting your time on a blog? Why haven't I seen your articles in the hunting magazines and seen you on TV?
Maverick223
Member
I was thinking the same thing...some of those "professionals" need to practice more.
Some of us don't find a discussion amongst fellow shooters and gun enthusiasts a waste of time...if you do, perhaps this isn't the right place for you.
First off; how do you know that you haven't? Besides, some folks just don't have the time.
Me? I have to say that I enjoy writing, and could probably squeeze it into my busy day, but I won't let companies trying to sell their wares write my articles for me, so the publishers don't care for me much. I just get fidgety on TV...besides it cuts into shootin' time.
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Purgatory
Member
Fernando, you're killin' me with all your pics, man. I'm dyin' to get back to that kind of terrain and foliage.
Keep 'em comin'.
Keep 'em comin'.
FLAvalanche
Member
Having the patience to wait for the right shot and pass on the questionable shot is a part of responcible and ethical hunting.
I've said it already: I won't take a shot with a .308 I wouldn't take with a .223. I wouldn't take a shot with a 155mm howitzer I wouldn't take with a .223.
You can take all the information you want from professional hunters, hunting magazines, ammo companies, and sports writers you wish. I'll take blessing of the largest big game hunting club on the planet.
The U.S. Military.
If it's good enough for them to use for the last 50 years I think it'll do me just fine. I have yet to base any part of my life on what paid your "professionals" recommend. They're too worried about kissing up to their sponsors to keep getting free crap.
I've also already mentioned that I have used .22. Seeing that this is the second thing I've already mentioned it leads me to believe that you don't really care what my side of this discussion is.
Why .223? Because shooting pigs with an AR is just plain fun. Why am I moving to a .50 Beowulf? Because shooting pigs with a .50 cal AR sounds like even more fun! But you'll still see me out there killing pigs with my .223, my bow and arrow and all my other rifles, pistols and shotguns. Diversify. Change it up. Hunting the same animal with the same caliber over and over is boring.
In fact, my next trip is going to be to try out an old J.C. Higgins bolt action 12 gauge.
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Maverick223
Member
Now I think that is going just a wee bit too far. There absolutely is some game that cannot be ethically (or wisely) taken with a .223Rem. (but while is isn't my choice for the task, I don't believe it is incapable of taking hog with a good shot). It simply hasn't the penetration or mass to effectively take the largest game.
FLAvalanche
Member
I said that once. I missed hunting the snow covered mountains of Pa. Then I went back and hunted them.
I was wrong...Warm and flat is nice.
Quote: "That's fine for domesticated hogs in a pen, but that shot is a difficult shot that you will miss someday and have a horrifically wounded hog that will get away and suffer."
A shot to the head from 100 or 150 meters can easily leave you cursing for some days or months. And it’s easy to understand why: the head is the part of the boar that moves the most, even when feeding – any wild boar can and will move his head several times to look for menaces (human or four legged) in short periods of time even if he doesn’t move a leg. Thorax, on the other hand, is usually quite still, especially at feeding time, presenting you with a steady target.
If you shoot with pour light or at greater distances you can easily miss the boar’s head movement, losing 60, 80 or 100 kg of meat
After several hours in the forest waiting for the bacon, you will not want to return home with a piece of a pig’s jaw or some teeth
I think God put almost all the vitals in the thorax for a reason, lol
More pictures for you, Purgatory, all taken with my canon 350D in central Portugal, where I hunt:
Pics in HDR
It’s almost one in morning here. Better go see about the bed or my girlfriend will kick my ass, lololol
A shot to the head from 100 or 150 meters can easily leave you cursing for some days or months. And it’s easy to understand why: the head is the part of the boar that moves the most, even when feeding – any wild boar can and will move his head several times to look for menaces (human or four legged) in short periods of time even if he doesn’t move a leg. Thorax, on the other hand, is usually quite still, especially at feeding time, presenting you with a steady target.
If you shoot with pour light or at greater distances you can easily miss the boar’s head movement, losing 60, 80 or 100 kg of meat
After several hours in the forest waiting for the bacon, you will not want to return home with a piece of a pig’s jaw or some teeth
I think God put almost all the vitals in the thorax for a reason, lol
More pictures for you, Purgatory, all taken with my canon 350D in central Portugal, where I hunt:
Pics in HDR
It’s almost one in morning here. Better go see about the bed or my girlfriend will kick my ass, lololol
FLAvalanche
Member
You're absolutely right.
Unfortunetly we don't have any of that game here in Southwest Florida.
Would I shoot elk, moose, caribou or bear with .233? No. Anything human sized? Absolutely.
But keep in mind the OP narrowed it down to hare, bobcat and hog.
Maverick223
Member
You didn't make the same stipulation; but with that said, I agree that it is enough for moderate sized hog, at typical range, with good shot placement.
thaumaturgist
Member
For starters, Maverick223, I know you're not writing hunting articles or seen on TV because the sermon you're preaching puts you in a small minority of hunter/shooters. That means most people wouldn't care to hear what you have to say and they sure wouldn't pay to hear such drivel. And yes it is a waste of your time writing on this blog because with your talent, you are severely limiting your audience. The shooting and hunting world desperately needs your guidance. Heck, I don't know how those gun writers who use big guns to make up for their poor marksmanship can even make a living without your counsel. In all honesty, I can tell you after reading what you've had to say here that the reason magazine publishers don't care for you very much has nothing to do with the rationalization you stated. You strongly push an ill-conceived minority view that a .223 is a good big game cartridge and that anyone who thinks otherwise is a poor shot who needs to practice more. Every blog that I've seen has a couple of people who like to push small rifles for large game and their entire argument boils down to "I've killed a zillion animals with my pop gun so it is all you ever need and if you use a bigger gun, then you are a poor shot." They never provide technical reasons for their wild success such as explaining why a 60/70 grain bullet breaks heavy bone and penetrates thick skin and muscle as well as a .308/.30-06. Or why the .22 caliber bullet kills just as well as a .30 caliber bullet even though it is a proven fact that the larger the frontal area of the bullet, the more impact is actually imparted to the target upon impact. Or why a .22 caliber hole causes more blood loss than a .30 caliber hole. The reason there is never any explanations like this is because this is all bogus. If you had facts that backed up your argument, you wouldn't have to attack people by accusing them of being poor marksman.
MCgunner
Member
I don't own a center fire .22 and don't have the urge. I don't like rifles with pistol grips on 'em for field/hunting use. Don't like the ergos. I have a .22 mag and several .22LRs for small to coyote sized game. I also have shotguns for rabbits. My first love is wing shooting, therefore, the shotguns. I own 20 gauge, 16 gauge, 12 gauge, and 10 gauge. I have a choice of .357 magnum, 7.62x39, .257 Roberts, .308 Winchester, and 7mm Rem Mag as well as a couple of mil surps in 8x57 for hunting rifles. I really don't want to go buy a .223 for hogs just because you all seem to think it's the best possible choice for anything up to elephants and hogs are nothing. My other calibers haven't failed me, yet, with good shot placement, even that wimpy 7 mag. Now, I'm going to be using mostly a 50 cal this year, a front stuffer. I just don't think of an AR or the .223 as the ultimate hog gun.....sorry. Yes, I am an excellent rifle shot. If I wasn't, I wouldn't want to use a front stuffer. I'd be into firepower, spray and pray, ARs with 20 round mags. 
My other calibers haven't failed me, yet, with good shot placement, even that wimpy 7 mag. Now, I'm going to be using mostly a 50 cal this year, a front stuffer. I just don't think of an AR or the .223 as the ultimate hog gun.....sorry. Yes, I am an excellent rifle shot. If I wasn't, I wouldn't want to use a front stuffer. I'd be into firepower, spray and pray, ARs with 20 round mags.
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22 LR I find very useful, but I usually limit it to bunnies and tree rats, I like to use them in my back yards with subsonic ammo to keep noise down, here's the latest trespasser, 30 - 40 yards but I can practice everyday ;-)
do you recognize where did the bullet go ;-)
do you recognize where did the bullet go ;-)
MCgunner
Member
Looks like a neck shot. Yummy.
thaumaturgist
Member
The "largest big game hunting club on the planet" my have blessed you, but there is no way that ANY hunting club would endorse the idea that a .223 is just as effective as a larger gun on pig or any other big game animal. If you want the rest of us to believe you, provide the link where we can read this endorsement for ourselves. Also, using the army as an example of why the .223 is a good big game round shows your ignorance. The military considers a wound as good as a kill and anyone who has been paying attention to Iraq and Afganistan has heard the the .223 has some not insignificant limitations, hence the development of the 6.5 Grendal, 6.8 SPC, .458 SOCUM, .500 Beowulf. Hunting an animal that you plan to recover and killing someone in combat are dramatically different things.
Maverick223
Member
For starters you might want to back up and read my posts. Don't look at my name and thing that I am the ultimate proponent for .223Rem. for elephant hunting, look at my name and realize that I am very knowledgeable about one particular platform that happens to be chambered in .223Rem. (actually 5.56NATO), one that is unusual and different and that I have made my own with significant modification to the original design...making me a "maverick". Furthermore you need to understand that some folks here have proven to have a great deal of experience, and despite your disagreement, you might want to first check your facts, and secondly wait till you're here at least a week before spouting disparaging comments to members in good standing.
Please cite where I have ever stated that the .223Rem. (or any other .22 caliber cartridge) is a good large game cartridge. You might want to take a hard look at post no. 45 for clarification.
That is not necessarily true, that depends on many factors that you have not addressed.
That isn't always (or often) true either.
Cite where I have ever stated such a comment...look hard, go back into the archives, because I didn't in this thread or another.
Purgatory
Member
Wow. That's a nice "picture-taker" and excellent pics. I admit I'll be using a few of those for screensavers. With your name on 'em, I'll be marketing for you for free.
Hey, isn't that a pig (speak of the devil
) right there in the middle of that dirt road in the second to last pic?
And, by all means, go see about that bed!
Hey, isn't that a pig (speak of the devil
) right there in the middle of that dirt road in the second to last pic?And, by all means, go see about that bed!
thaumaturgist
Member
Maverick223, one of your statements: "I was thinking the same thing...some of those "professionals" need to practice more." What did you mean?
Maverick223
Member
That was meant in jest, though in many cases it holds true. Some of the "professionals" that you see on television or read about in magazines aren't as skilled or knowledgeable as they claim to be. In fact many are not professional in any sense of the word. Additionally most cater to corporations that stand to make a profit on their publication/show (notice the advertisements that immediately follow their reviews).
thaumaturgist
Member
Maverick223, I realize that there are people on this site that have alot of experience. You need to realize that just because someone is new to the site doesn't mean that they are any less experienced. From what I've read over the last few days, Fernando, with only 33 posts, seems to have more experience than some of those that have been on this site for awhile. Since you are the expert on modified ARs in 5.56mm, why didn't you jump in early on this discussion and set the record straight on the first day? The original question didn't involve a .223 at all, yet, like at every site I've been to, someone jumped in and started preaching its virtues on pigs. There have been some wild statements on this discussion and you finally made a firm disagreement in post #83 and even then you said that they had gone a "wee bit too far". Post #82 exposed just how ludicrous some of these posts were, yet your disagreement was still rather mild. A maverick AR expert with over 7000 posts on this site could sure help out someone trying to show a little sanity to a discussion that got diverted to a caliber in his area of expertise.
thaumaturgist
Member
For some reason, everyone in this discussion seems to believe that what I refered to as a "professional hunter" is a famous gun/hunting writer. Notice that I made a distinction between the two by listing them both. a professional hunter is someone who makes a living from hunting, not necessarily writing about it. Let me put it this way, the next time you book a hunt for pigs, antelope, deer, etc. tell the guide you plan on bringing a .223 and see what he says.
Maverick223
Member
I didn't accuse you of being inexperienced, because I don't know your experience level. I simply stated that you need to cool off and refrain from disparaging and insulting commentary, or to be honest you aren't likely to be here very long. This is TheHighRoad after all.
You are misinformed, ARs aren't my bag. Additionally it isn't my place to "set the record straight" WRT using .223Rem. for large game hunting, as I have made it clear that it isn't my chosen cartridge for the task, and I haven't enough experience to refute the claim.
As I feel it should be, from all reasonable accounts the .223Rem. can perform fine on moderate size hog as well as deer, as long as care is taken in choosing a suitable load and shot placement.
You simply stated "professionals"...then went on to talk about television show hosts and magazine article authors (as seen below).
thaumaturgist said:
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not sure if they exist, they were abundant at the beginning of the last century, they only places were they can be found nowadays are native tribes, or maybe I don't understand what did you mend as professional, I just don't see how can anyone survive just on hunting alone with all the state regulations and equipment cost...
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