Best little big gun?

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Kachok

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As some of you may know I am probably needing to re-barrel my ever disappointing A-Bolt before it drives me crazy(er) Now that I know I can get it redone I was thinking since I have to go through the hassle might as well do something fun with it rather then chamber it in another redundant .264-.308 cartridge that I already have covered so well. I was thinking of making a short action medium bore out of it, a little big gun so to speak. Not alot of options in that range but there are the 338 Fed and 358 Winchester. Never fired much less hunted with either one of those myself but both post some impressive numbers for 308 cases, and I was hoping to get some insight from those who have. On paper the 358 can throw a 200-225gr bullet just a hair faster and hit a little harder due to the larger caliber, but the edge in external ballistics has to go to the 338 Fed by a considerable margin (mostly due to bullet selection). My initial thought was the 358 because of it's history and a cult like following that rivals us 6.5x55 guys. Only downside is the fact that the 358 bore has been sorely neglected by most bullet makers, and my selection of suitable .358 bullets is slim :( The Fed has a much larger selection of suitable bullets but lacks any real history and is a bit closer to the .30cal selection that I already have, and it's advantage in external ballistics is almost neglegable since this will be a woods rifle/brush gun and likely never see a range past 200yds. I am a handloader and already have quite the stash of 308 brass on hand so availability of factory ammo is a none issue since I will probably never use the stuff.
Thinking of using either a 20" or 22" medium contour barrel to keep the weight/size reasonable without turning it into a featherweight sloberknocker.
Your thoughts?
 
Trying to reuse the bolt, it is a 7mm-08 now so it should work just fine with any 308 based cartridge.
 
Yeah the 350 Rem Mag crossed my mind for a second, but then I remembered the whole magnum bolt face issue, would probably need a new magazine too, have to accommodate a wider cartridge.
 
A buddy of mine built a 358 win on a model seven action. It has an 18 inch hart barrel. It's one of coolest little bolt guns I've ever seen. He loads pistol bullets in it for his grandkids to deer hunt with and they've killed a truck load of them with it. But he also loads 225 partitions with IMR4895 for bears and hogs. It's a super rig. Has a 1x4 leupold on it and the thing weighs in at about 6 3/4 lbs. Oh ya it's a shooter.
 
Skyshot said:
A buddy of mine built a 358 win on a model seven action. It has an 18 inch hart barrel. It's one of coolest little bolt guns I've ever seen. He loads pistol bullets in it for his grandkids to deer hunt with and they've killed a truck load of them with it. But he also loads 225 partitions with IMR4895 for bears and hogs. It's a super rig. Has a 1x4 leupold on it and the thing weighs in at about 6 3/4 lbs. Oh ya it's a shooter.
Click to expand...
That sounds delightful :)
 
Kachok said:
... My initial thought was the 358 ... Only downside is the fact that the 358 bore has been sorely neglected by most bullet makers, and my selection of suitable .358 bullets is slim ...
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With the 358 Winchester, you can use cast lead bullets and equal the ballistics of the jacketed stuff. Lots of good bullet molds out there for that caliber.
 
Skyshot said:
A buddy of mine built a 358 win on a model seven action. It has an 18 inch hart barrel. It's one of coolest little bolt guns I've ever seen. He loads pistol bullets in it for his grandkids to deer hunt with and they've killed a truck load of them with it. But he also loads 225 partitions with IMR4895 for bears and hogs. It's a super rig. Has a 1x4 leupold on it and the thing weighs in at about 6 3/4 lbs. Oh ya it's a shooter.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot. Now you made me want another caliber that I have never thought about. That sounds cool as anything, pushing 9mm handgun bullets to magnum rifle velocities. Any idea where he gets load data to do that with or does he just treat it like a wildcat and work from scratch?
 
Nosler lists loads using their Partition handgun bullet. Lyman lists the cast stuff. Never cast a bullet before but it has always interested me.
 
Doggone it Kachok! I had settled in my mind the decision was between the Fed and the 338-06, now you go and bring up the 358 Win again! Geesh! Give a guy a break! ;)

One of the reasons I like the 358 is the 357 bullet idea. Also it is just a bit better I power than the 338 Fed. But, unless I get a BLR (would love to) Im leaning Fed or -06. I have a dream to hunt an Elk and a griz some day (within 300 yards). The BC on the 338 is also a very significant deciding point for me, that and the factory bullets to put in my many .30-06 brass.
Greg
 
If it makes you feel any better had it been a long action the 338-06 would have been a shoe in :D
Yeah 338 Fed trumps the 358 by a pretty healthy margin on the whole external ballistics chart, but as I said this would be a woods/brush gun only so the 358 is still in contention with the much more modern 338 Fed, honestly I would love either one of them, but I think I am leaning toward the old 35 cal, ballistics tables aside it just seems like a more "fun" cartridge to load and shoot. Anyone know if I can neck up 7mm-08 to .358 caliber?
 
Kachok said:
... Anyone know if I can neck up 7mm-08 to .358 caliber?...
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Since it is based on the 308 platform, the short answer is yes. You will need to use intermediate steps, ie 30 and maybe 32 caliber to reach 35. You could also use the 22-250, with additional steps.
 
Kachok, you have an interesting chore ahead of you, choosing between two similar cartridges. One I have battled with several times. I usally end up in the bigger is better category as I prefer large slow moving bullets as opposed to smaller fast one. I have a Remington 722, currently chambered for the 22 Remington Magnum, and I am going through a similar decision. Where do I want it to end up? I have had in the past, a 722 that was reworked to handle the 458 x 2" American, what a great rifle that was! Lightweight and able to lauch 450 and 500 grain bullets as fast as my shoulder would tolerate. Great fun! Now, for this one I am considering a rebore to handle something based on the 308 cartridge. So here is another option for you to consider, if you reload, why not a 411 or 416 caliber wildcat? Certainly effective on elk and moose and also good for grizzly but not that hard on the shoulder. Maybe not what you are currently considering but sometimes it is fun to think outside the box.
 
The 416 caliber is nothing but a dangerous game caliber so everything is heavyweight premium bonded or monolithic solids, besides I don't know if I could even get expanding velocities out of a 400gr RN with only 40 something grains of powder .411s have a VERY slim bullet selection, exactly 4 bullets on the market in my last study. Now a 375 caliber is almost plausible seeing as their are several good bullets in the 200-235gr range that would lend themselves to such a short stubby cartridge, and make for a VERY big little gun, they are some are designed for 375 Win speeds so expansion should not be an issue seeing as this would be between the Win and H&H, I am guessing about 2500fps tops with the 235gr, not really sure if I can dabble with the H&Hs 270gr+ bullets though, I would be chugging along really slow for a bullet designed for 2700+fps, those would take up a good bit of my case volume, just off the cuff numbers I don't think I could get more then about 2200fps out of them at the muzzle, could be a little off, but I doubt I am far. I would think finding a 375-08 barrel would be a tricky proposition and I have never done custom dies before........hummmmm
 
Kachok, in all bullet maters, cast bullets are your best friend. Jacketed bullets are only beginning to approach what can be achieved with cast.
 
What kind of cast bullets are superior to conventional SP HP and Poly tipped bullets for hunting deer/hog class game, I hear talk of expanding cast, but I have never seen one tested. I am very well aware that Keith style hardcast are effective game getters but with a much narrower wound cavity then a conventional bullet from what I have seen.
 
Been reading turns out quite a few people have done 375-08 "Jaguar" conversions before, but the general consensus is that the 375-284 wildcat is better suited to the larger caliber seeing as it can pack 60gr of powder into a standard bolt face short action but I cannot find anything that I would consider reliable load data for either yet. Part of me questions if any animal including brown bear would ever notice the difference between a 225gr .358 cal and a 235gr 375cal
 
Kachok ... What kind of cast bullets are superior to conventional SP HP and Poly tipped bullets for hunting deer/hog class game, I hear talk of expanding cast, but I have never seen one tested. I am very well aware that Keith style hardcast are effective game getters but with a much narrower wound cavity then a conventional bullet from what I have seen...
Click to expand...


Never seen an expanding lead bullet? Cast from the proper alloy, 1/40 is a good choice, the 45-70 bullet consistently expands in big animals. I admit, spire points and cast are not the best of friends but they have been made to work, it just takes a little fiddling. Cast soft point bullets are also a good choice for expansion. Cast of harder alloys, penetration is beyond anything needed in the hunting field.

Actullay, pure lead when paper patched is a great bullet, it expands and holds together.

Keith bullets are pretty good, for handguns. I use them in the 45 caliber revolvers but in rifles, I prefer a broad blunt bullet. Prior to jacketed stuff, lead was all they had and it performed well. I don't believe I have fired a copper clad bullet in 40 years.

And the nice thing about the 35 (and up) caliber rifles is they start out at a diameter the small bores aspire to become upon impact.
 
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That rifle make is nothing to keep.

It's made in japan, those who started WW2, killed millions and then lost the war and killed our businesses.

Dump that junk and buy a better rifle.

Look for rifles with control round feeding, and three position safeties.
 
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