Best long range rifle in the best long range caliber?

[Jasper86]

Nevermind....ain't worth the effort.

oh, feel free to go on, I'd LOVE to hear your vast knowledge on the subject.

for whatever it's worth, i end up blowing through ~ 3500-4000 sierra 77's a season, and I'd say I'm a fair shot (High Master isn't exactly a cakewalk shooting a service rifle @ full distance across the course).

77's will NOT shoot accurately @ 1000yds. at 800 they may hold their own....but they lack the ballistics to stay stable @ 1k.


let me guess, you're using Sierra's Infinity software, and loading data with G1 tables? well hell at that rate my 80's ought to shoot subMOA out to 1200 yards (which...sadly, they don't)

if 77's were worth a damn @ 1k, don't ya think the US army marksmanship unit would still be running a .223 for long range? (they're not, they ramped 80-90gr bullets as fast as they'd go, then gave up and moved to the M110 variants in .308.)

 

[stsimons]

Hmmm. ..too many variables at the 800yd to 1K range. Taking the time to develop a "relationship" with your gun and personally learning the little idiosyncrasies your rifle is worth the last .25 MOA it takes to distinguish the good from the great. The BEST long range rifle or caliber does not really exist. Unfortunately guns are like women, a mystery at best and every once in a while one of us gets lucky...

 

[Beak50]

How many people are actually capable enough to shoot 1,000 yrd's with a standard 308 or 06 and get sub moa all the time?alot of training and practice just for starter's.I wish I could have went to sniper school in the Army.I've read all about Carlos Hathcock ect..and know about the record's.But I think some people act like it's nothing to shoot like that when there are so many variable's like wind,bullet drop your gun would have to be like just another part of your body to shoot like them guy's.I don't even know of a range around me that is longer than 500 yrds.

 

[pdd614]

Jasper, I'm not sure where the hostility towards a 223 comes from, but my real world experiences differ from yours. Now I don't shoot shoot a 223 for ranges past 6-700 yards, but I have shot with a few folks that do. They don't seem to have too much trouble keeping the 75 amax on a 20 inch piece of steel at 1k. They weren't exactly wearing out the clay pigeons at that range. But then again, neither do I. Hardly minute of mattress or 80-90 grains.
For myself, I mainly shoot the 6.5x47. It's out for a new barrel after a bit over 4k rounds, or I have switched to a savage 30-06 until the x47 gets back.

Now that I think about it, having a 223 bolt action set up for long range ukd shooting could be of some value as a backup rifle. I could buy 1000 pieces of brass for about the same price as only 100 pieces of the x47. Half the powder consumption of my 6.5, and the 75 & 80 grain amax's are fairly cheap considering. Not a bad recipe for alot of rounds downrange.

 

[wanderinwalker]

for whatever it's worth, i end up blowing through ~ 3500-4000 sierra 77's a season, and I'd say I'm a fair shot (High Master isn't exactly a cakewalk shooting a service rifle @ full distance across the course).

I have to shoot HOW much to hang with you?

Anyway, back to the OP, whatever you do, do yourself a favor and do NOT get anything with Magnum in the name. Go hang out on the line and ASK QUESTIONS. Jasper's right, one thing rifle shooters absolutely love to do is talk gear and show it off. Find out what you want to do; steel, NRA prone, F-class, benchrest. It wouldn't do much good to get a nice Palma rifle only to find your local opportunities are benchrest and tactical shoots.

(And when you're ready, have a gunsmith like Larry Racine work some magic on a Savage. Or buy a Tubb 2K...)

 

[Jasper86]

Jasper, I'm not sure where the hostility towards a 223 comes from, but my real world experiences differ from yours. Now I don't shoot shoot a 223 for ranges past 6-700 yards, but I have shot with a few folks that do. They don't seem to have too much trouble keeping the 75 amax on a 20 inch piece of steel at 1k. They weren't exactly wearing out the clay pigeons at that range. But then again, neither do I. Hardly minute of mattress or 80-90 grains.
For myself, I mainly shoot the 6.5x47. It's out for a new barrel after a bit over 4k rounds, or I have switched to a savage 30-06 until the x47 gets back.

Now that I think about it, having a 223 bolt action set up for long range ukd shooting could be of some value as a backup rifle. I could buy 1000 pieces of brass for about the same price as only 100 pieces of the x47. Half the powder consumption of my 6.5, and the 75 & 80 grain amax's are fairly cheap considering. Not a bad recipe for alot of rounds downrange.

no hostility at all towards .223...i love the damned round. I just shoot a LOT of it, and am intimately familiar with whats its capable of. I load my match ammo with the best components I can afford (although the best SDs I've ever gotten were with Wolf SRM223's)...Lapua match brass, Sierra 77s and 80s (although Ive been dabbling with the berger 82BTs and I'm going to try the Berger 90HPBTs when my new 6.5twist kreiger shows up **should be any day now**

a 77gr matchking in real world settings will go subsonic somewhere between 850-925 yards. can you still hit a big chunk of steel? sure. depends how soon they go subsonic (if they maintain rotational stability, they can, and usually will stabilize after passing through that transonic stage...although it takes a bit of distance for them to re-stabilize). I don't measure usable accuracy as off and on hits on steel at a given distance. I shoot for 10's. if the ammo can't hold the 10ring (assuming I'm doing my part), I have no use for it. That's why I have a Tubb2K with a 1:13 kreiger for a palma/LR gun (saving for a second one in 6xc for non-palma LR matches)



keep up with me? hell, wait for me to shoot a few 8's on my feet. I didn't make HM with my offhand scores :bang head: ... want to improve? trigger time with a good coach is KEY

and Larry Racine is a fantastic smith. he shoots with us all summer (my home club(s) are within driving range of his neck of the woods.

 

[wanderinwalker]

keep up with me? hell, wait for me to shoot a few 8's on my feet. I didn't make HM with my offhand scores :bang head: ... want to improve? trigger time with a good coach is KEY

and Larry Racine is a fantastic smith. he shoots with us all summer (my home club(s) are within driving range of his neck of the woods.

Heh, Larry's closer than that to me!

(And I know I can hang on my feet, I've seen you shoot offhand! It's slow prone that scares me...)

 

[gunner69]

Well you guys are close, it is in 6.5mm (.260 cal is 6.5mm by the way) it's the Norma 6.5x284. Google that and sit back for a read......

I took a Remington 700 in 6.5x55 Swede and had my gunsmith rechamber it to 6.5x284. One flat shooting fine long range rifle. Capable of doing long range target work, counter sniper, or big game rifle. Read about it grasshopper..... you will learn.

If you are going with an AR platform don't rule out the 6.5 Grendle either. It too will reach out and touch something for you.

 

[slash415]

There are a lot of bolt action guns that will reach out that far, there really isn't a "best" gun for a 1000 yards. It depends on what you want, do you want a gun that will punch through an engine block at 1000 yards? Then go with a .50 bmg. Or do you want something with less boom and alot easier to shoot, a 300 wsm is a great gun for 1000 yards. So as you can see there isn't really a best gun for 1000 yards. Its all about preference and what each shooter is looking for. Personally I would use a .300 RUM which is more then adequate for the job. It provides awesome power and preformance, but is less expensive and more fun to shoot then a .50. Again that is just what I would use. Now unless your rolling in money, I am sure ammo is going to be a big factor (and of course the gun). With the right setup, a .308 will have no problem at 1000 yards. Of course you cant just go out and buy a Savage Axis for 250 at walmart and expect to be splitting coke cans at that range. I would suggest doing some research and have a local gun smith build you a gun (if you went with a .308.) Of course that way your looking at a gun thats over 1000$. But if it's built right you will quickly save loads of money on ammo that is less expensive then more powerful calibres. If you want to go a little bit bigger, there is the 30/06, 7rem mag .300 wsm.....These rounds won't require quite as an expensive gun, but the ammo is much more then a .308....Do you plan on reloading??? That will make a big difference in your decision and open up alot more possibilities.........Hope this helps.....I could write a lot more, but ill see what you have to say first

 

[BrocLuno]

OK guys, you are WAY out of my league here, but the subject is great fun to think about. I happen to have a pile of old Arisaka's in my shop from one source or another (trading, repairs not wanted, Pop's WW-II bring back, etc.) and I've become intrigued with what the Japanese were doing way back around WW-I

Look at the bullet they were building for the Type 38 and Type 44 rifles. Moderate case with a L-O-N-G bullet. All up, it's listed as 6.5x50. That seems to me to be a pretty good combination?

I'm sure their powders were more primitive than what we have today, but they were teaching volley fire, so their guys has to be able to shoot beyond 1000m. I know, it was not for accuracy like we are talking here. But, I bet they looked at trans-sonic performance at volley ranges when they were designing the round.

It's just food for thought, but it gives me something to think about at odd times.

I have an old beater Type 38 that I'm doing a home made "straight jacket" barrel sleeve on (I'm trying an aluminum sleeve on this one). I'll scope it and see what it can do? The barrel is not pristine, but it's serviceable, and the chambers are known to be oversized so it will not be a match winner. But it will be a cheap experiment and fun to tune and tweak

This is a photo of an actual WW-II 6.5mm Jap round:

 

[gunner69]

Go to http://www.cheaperthandirt.com and search the caliber you are considering. By the way, the Savage 110 might not cost as much as some of the choices but they are a bargain.

 

[Jim Watson]

I'm going to try the Berger 90HPBTs when my new 6.5twist kreiger shows up **should be any day now**

I've GOT a 6.5 twist Krieger and it shoots just fine with 90 gr Bergers or JLKs.
The guys in the 1000 yard pits really hate looking for .22 holes, though, especially when you are not a HM and tend to scatter them around a bit. It is just about right for a 600 yard midrange gun, though.

I could not push a 90 gr SMK or 75 gr Amax fast enough to stay supersonic at 1000 without breaking up. I had one string that was nothing but 10s Xs and misses. The guy scoring said "I am seeing silver streaks in the air before every shot they mark as a miss."
Load them to where they stay in one piece and they do well at 600.

 

[War Eagle]

I shoot this Rem 700 5R 1,000-yds often. Handloaded ammo, ballistic app on my phone, Kestrel wind gauge, and a whole lot of experience and I shoot lights out.

The rifle cost was reasonable enough. The optic is what eats up your budget. But, at 1,000-yds, you're gonna want the best glass you can afford.


...

 

[lencac]

Yep, 30.06 will and can do that job. I have my Gruning Precision in 27" barrel in 30.06 moving a 190 gr Sierra MK at 2900 fps.
But for those "special" occasions I will pull out The Beast, 338 Lapua Magnum moving 300gr@2800fps/250gr@3000fps/225gr@3250fps

The main difference in the two is you're not chambering a $5 bill every time you yank on the bang switch on the 30.06

 

[Fullboar1]

Yep the Scots beat the US F/TR team in July and one of the better Scot shooters was using a 223 and won a few rounds at 1000 yards, so they do win comps. I number of Lady shooters at one of the clubs I go to use 223's with 80 grain bullets (shooting F Class) and they do quite well.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...-tr-all-stars-at-blair-atholl-on-4th-of-july/

As for winning in a National and International comp with a "Standard out of the box rifle" I have never seen that "VERIFIED" by anyone other then what the Savage Media department stated and was copied by a number of websites and magazines (I have been around F Class long enough to see what guns it takes to win at a high level and no I dont drink the Cool Aid).

 

[jimniowa]

I had a 6.5-284 built for me on a Rem 700 vls on a short action with a Krieger 1:8 twist 28" heavy barrel. With scope it weighs about 17.5 lbs. It was made for 1000 yd shooting. The 6.5-284 is a top choice for long range. I use Lapua brass Sierra 140 g match bullets Imr 4831 and RL 22 powders at under 3000 ft/sec. I recently bought a Savage Long Range Hunter in 6.5-284 with a 1:8 twist with long action. I use Norma brass with it for hunting. The 6.5-284 ammo can be had at about $47/20 so its for a reloaders for now if you do serious shooting. That was my reason for the buy of the Savage as I had the dies, compents and bullets. Check it out.
Jim

 

[gunner69]

Yeah, I agree the 6.5x284 is pretty much a reloaders dream, a non-reloaders drain on the pocket book. So, why don't you enjoy reloading? This caliber is a great long range, sniper/counter sniper, AND capable hunting round. Plus it doesn't beat hell out of you when you squeeze one off.

I was shooting at Fort Benning a couple years ago, and all my friend on the spotting scope could say was "Holy ****......" By the way he ran out and bought a Savage 110, in 6.5x284, and is a shooter to be reconned with.