best milsurp hunting rifle?

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roscoe

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I need to get a hunting rifle sometime in the next year for a planned hunting trip, and was thinking that it would be neat to get an old military rifle. I am a history buff and like the idea of carrying something from WWI or WWII.

My main requirements are that it be an Allied gun (primarily because of the availability of ammunition), bolt action (lighter weight), accurate enough to make humane shots at 400 yards (long shots are sometimes required in the desert), and I want to mount a scope that can be removed to maintain the historical integrity of the piece. For aesthetic's sake, I want the stock to be original (not sporterized).

I figure that limits me to an Enfield No4, a Springfield 1903, and a 1917 Eddystone. Is anyone familiar enough with the different models to make recommendations?

I would somewhat prefer the 30-06 , since it seems to be available in more varieties of cartridge, but I am open to pursuasion. I like to shoot, so I will probably burn through some cartridges, and want ammunition that will be available for the next 50 years.

Money is a factor; I was hoping to get the rifle for no more than $350, and then worry about the scope and mount.

Any advice? Thanks!
 
Mosin-Nagant M39 would be good and the ammo is cheap and plentiful, provided you do your homework first and buy some in bulk.

Any allied gun other than a #4 would cost too much, per your price limit.
 
I second the M39 Mosin Nagant, even though the Finns weren't actually our Allies (they justly fought the Soviets, who were our Allies). Ammo is cheap and softpoint hunting rounds are available. If you want to scope it you will have to get a "scout scope" type mount, BTW.

I think an Enfield No. 4 would also be a great rifle to get. Ammo costs are a bit higher, but not prohibitingly so. Either rifle would be good out to 400 yards provided the shooter does his or her job.

As mentioned, getting a Eddystone or Springfield for $350 will be tough, unless it's badly worn, but if you can find one, you will have more and better choices for ammo. Dunno about scope mounting, though.
 
Nagant makes sence. Really cheap gun that delivers a lot of accuracy. 762x54 is cheap and plentiful.
 
About Mosin

Mounting a riflescope on a M-N type rifle is a bit more difficult than with some other rifles, but it is not impossible. The rail that Advanced Technology sells seems to be OK, just makes me wonder weather It’s possible to shoot with iron sights after the rail is mounted on a top of your receiver.

I have a tall gunsmith made side rail in my M39. I can still shoot with iron sights, as they are fully visible under the rail. The only con with that is that I had to attach a cheek rest (removable, leather) on the stock.

There is at least one Russian manufacturer who makes quick release side rail scope mounts to Mosin-Nagant rifles. If you want to build a M-N rifle with the original kind of PU-sniper spirit, then this Russian mount with some traditional looking 4X scope would be perfect.

http://www.buymilitaria.com/mn_images/MNPOSCOPE&MOUNT.jpg

http://www.buymilitaria.com/mn_images/MNPUSCOPEMNT.jpg

http://www.saunalahti.fi/~veika1/_borders/mil-ki9.jpg

http://www.saunalahti.fi/~veika1/_borders/prod052.jpg
 
You can spend $400 or more for a good M1903 or M1917. Drilling for a scope will destroy most of that value. There are options to drilling and tapping a rifle for a scope, but I din't know how suitable they are for precision 400 yard shooting.

Or, you can buy one of several different national manufacture 8mm Mausers. Some are available drilled and tapped for a scope for $100 to $200.

Either way, you'll wind up with a 9 lb rifle. For what you'd put into it, you can buy a used civilian hunting rifle that will be newer, more accurate, and might fire a more suitable cartridge. Plenty are available used in either 30.06 or .308. You can buy milsurp .308 (7.62 NATO, there is a small difference) for less than half the price of commercial loads.
 
My main requirements are that it be an Allied gun (primarily because of the availability of ammunition), bolt action (lighter weight), accurate enough to make humane shots at 400 yards (long shots are sometimes required in the desert), and I want to mount a scope that can be removed to maintain the historical integrity of the piece.
Click to expand...

It seems that ammo for the "badguys" and "commies" is actually FAR more available in surplus quantities for practice. And hunting ammo is available in quantity for both 8mm and 7.62R
 
Either way, you'll wind up with a 9 lb rifle. For what you'd put into it, you can buy a used civilian hunting rifle that will be newer, more accurate, and might fire a more suitable cartridge. Plenty are available used in either 30.06 or .308. You can buy milsurp .308 (7.62 NATO, there is a small difference) for less than half the price of commercial loads.
Click to expand...

Another good point. Look at Savage rifles. A used one won't cost you more than you want to spend.
 
You said you wanted an 'allied' gun because of ammo. Well, there are several other options to get the ammo capabilities you want. There are M98 Mausers in .308 (such as the Steyr model 12/61 and the Israeli's) and there are Belgian Mausers made in 30-06. Might give them a look.

There are scope mounts that replace the rear sights without changing the rifle so that it can be returned to original if desired.
 
I'd go with a sniper version of the Moisin Nagant. It's handier in the field than the SMLE Mk 4 No. 1 (T) and the PU scope is superior to the Weaver 330 of the 1903A4.
 
With a $59 91/30, you can impress your hunting buddies by saying you spent 3-5 times as much on your scope as you spent on the gun!
Click to expand...
Plus it doubles as a flamethrower.... :p
 
For what you'd put into it, you can buy a used civilian hunting rifle that will be newer, more accurate, and might fire a more suitable cartridge.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had thought of that. I suppose it was sentimental reasons that made me want a milsurp, same for wanting an Allied gun (although I love my SKS).

How accurate are these milsurp guns (other than the Swiss rifles, which are purported to be very accurate)? Chuck Hawkes seems to disparage the accuracy of milsurps generally (for hunting applications), which makes me suspect that it would be by pure chance that I might get an accurate one (without shooting it first).

At the online auctions I have seen some 1903s and 1917s for $300-$400 but it is impossible to determine the condition of the bore, chamber, etc. I suspect that the expensive ones are somehow collectible in ways the cheaper ones are not (matching numbers, etc.), but I am really interested only in a good shooter. Enfields seem to be obtainable for around $250.

Is there some way to determine which are likely to be less collectable, but good shooters? For example, I notice that the 1903A3 seems to be around $350-$400 for good looking specimens, and I like the idea of a peep sight anyway. Is this model a bit less desireable?
 
www.odcmp.com

You have to jump through a few hoops, but the $400 1903A3s and $500 Garands from CMP are the best deal around.

As far as accuracy goes, a 1903 or Garand within CMP's specs should be more than accurate enough for hunting. The biggest issue is adding a scope without drilling into the receiver and ruining the collector value.

Also -- If you go the Garand route, you have to be careful of shooting too many rounds of hunting ammo as it generates a higher pressure than milsurp ammo. A search on "Garand Hunting" will get you a ton of info on this from folks more knowledgable than me.
 
How accurate are these milsurp guns (other than the Swiss rifles, which are purported to be very accurate)?
Click to expand...

The aforementioned Finn M39 can be every bit as accurate as the Swiss rifles. I've taken mine hunting feral hog, and had no problems.
 
Remeber, a mil-surp will be signifigantly heavier and longer than a commercial rifle. After all, they were designed to be used with a bayonet or designed to be used as a club in close quarters...thats why most have steel buttplates.
 
Remember, though, that the milsurp rifle is generally all milled steel and of very high quality; a new rifle made to the same standards as a M48 Yugo Mauser or M39 Nagant would probably cost over a thousand dollars.

Plus, clean, notch-and-post military rifle sights are much better than the buckhorns found on many sporting rifles, in my opinion.
 
That is true. Don't get the wrong message from me, I'm not bashing mil-surps. They are the best value on the firearms market. I love my K-31- I'm just pointing out that for hunting, they may not be the best all-around rifle.
 
Before you buy a Mosin Nagant type rifle for hunting, I suggest that you try operating the safety mechanism. See it you want to deal with that and get a shot off in a timely manner. Just my 2 cents.
 
Yugoslav K98 or M24

Yugoslav Partisans were our allies and used the Mauser 98 in the Czech M24 and the standard K98 forms. Both can be had for less than $200, leaving some money for optics. 8/mm ammo is dirt cheap too.
 
What exactly are you going to be shooting with this rifle?

400 Yards is a really long way away. A lot more than a steady hand and a good eye come into play at those distances. Things like blood pressure, muscle fatigue, heart rate, thermals, wind, etc. play major roles in the detriment of your bullet trajectory. Have you ever shot anything 400 yards away? It doesn't sound like it since you are looking for a mil-surp rifle to do it with. If I were going to be attempting shots like that I would not settle for less than a nice, new bolt action rifle from one of the top names like Remington, Winchester, Browning or maybe Savage. Then, I would get in lots of off-season practice and find the load my rifle likes. I would also spend a lot of money on good glass and great mounts. The trigger is another big factor as is the mount between the receiver/action/barrel and stock. Mil-surp rifles, especially those with sling mounts and barrel bands or the like, have a tendency to be less accurate due to the pressures put on the barrel due to these things. Some mil-surp rifles also have screws that like to come loose.

Mil-surp rifles are really the luck of the draw when it comes to accuracy and no matter how much you spend on a scope, it won't fit like one will on a modern bolt gun.

This is just my opinion so no harm intended and no flames please.
 
Swedish M38- as far as milsurps go, its on the high end of the accuracy spectrum, is chambered in a cartridge that is arguably a near perfect deer round. Is fairly light, well balanced, and has a barrel of a manageable length. If you decide to eventually "upgrade" it by mounting a scope, you are giving up nothing to your hunting buddies who use remington 700's. The ammunition is readily available almost anywhere. If I were to pick a milsurp rifle that I had to make a 400 yard shot with, it woul deither be a Swedish 96 or 38. Some of these rifles were lent to Finland to fight the Red Army. Not exactly an allied rifle, but at least it was a type used to kill communists.:cool:

03A3 springfield with a good barrel on it would be my second choice.
:cool:
 
First, what are you going to be hunting?

Jack rabbits? Grizzly bears?

I read all the way through the thread before I saw that cracked butt hit a good answer.

I used to have Swede Mauser in 6.5X55. Until some pig f**kers stole it from me.

For anything up to deer, that would be just fine.

When I lived in Gillette, WY, I met a guy at the range practicing for antelope season. He had a Swede Mauser with the scout scope mount---attaches to the rear sight base, and then can be removed and rear sight replaced after hunting season.

6.5X55 is flat shooting, accurate, low-recoil, with plenty of oomph when it gets there.

hillbilly
 
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