best non +p .38 spl for older gentleman's snub

[wnycollector]

Oh, and Magtech makes a nice 158 SJHP at standard pressure. Probably won't expand but it's a little faster and will penetrate.

I use that specific loading in my 1924 S&W M&P 4th change 5" .38. It clocks in at 840 fps from my revolver. Its is a really accurate and inexpensive!

 

[Edubya]

I fit the description of the OP's father.
If he is going to carry it, he'll need to practice with it. To get him to practice more with it, you'll want to do several things: Have the action smoothed by a real gunsmith (recoil is not the only thing); get one or more of his peers into the shooting game too (Us ol' farts like competition too); 158 wadcutters are my favorite! I have done some informal/non-scientific testing on my own, they work! Find some that are soft lead and they'll expand like a HP should, no matter what they hit or go through. The WCs that I use for the range are strictly target ammo, mouse-farts, as some would say. I load them myself with 3.3gr Titegroup. I can keep 20 of them inside of a 6" circle from ten yards.
I practice with both hands, single handed, weak and strong hand. I will move and shoot from 3 to 7 yds. and I'll shoot a hundred to 500 a week.
I shot my lil' 642 only because I needed to, initially. After I got the action smoothed out, I shoot it because I enjoy it!

PS: I do have the CTC405 on my 642-2

 

[GeezerwithGuns]

I carry a S&W model 36 loaded with 158gr standard pressure wad cutters. I'm 61 years young. Recoil is very manageable and accuracy is great. If you do a search, you can find substantial anecdotal information on the effectiveness of wad cutters as defensive rounds. I did try the Federal Hydro Shok's and found that accuracy was a significant issue with the light weight bullet in my gun. Confidence plays a big role, and I'm very confident that I can hit what I shoot at with the WC's.

 

[Jkwas]

Given your criteria, I voted for the 125gn hornady XTP. It probably won't expand, but it will go blunt. Other rounds worth mentioning, aside from the hopefully soon to be re-introduced Nyclad, is the standard pressure 158 gn SWC and also 158gn cowboy loads like the one below:

 

[kmrcstintn]

thank you for responding; I do have some feedback...first off to the person who questioned the authenticity of my inquiry...yes it's real!!!!! :banghead:

he's used to federal contract 125gr +p sjhp's from several security jobs he had, so that is what I got for him initially...Winchester WWB Personal Protection variant since the muzzle flash is less than the Remington UMC variant; we also tried Remington 158gr +p lswchp's which recoil a bit more, but less muzzle flash than the 125gr sjhp's;

I have a bunch of 158gr swc remanufactured loads from www.mastercast.net
I'm thinking of having him try them for recoil control; I'm a bit hesitant since the sharp shoulder profile hangs up & makes reloading a bit difficult using a speedloader; he doesn't like Bianchi Speed Strips;

I inquired about the Federal Hydrashok 110gr, the Hornady XTP 125gr & 158 gr, and the Winchester Silvertip 110gr since they are easy to buy within my region; Hornady doesn't currently catalog the 140 gr XTP for .38 spl; Nyclads were available for a short time, but they were the 158gr +p's that were left over from NYPD stockpiles;

I'll have to look over the Buffalo Bore loads, but I tried ordering .357 mag hunting ammo from them last year and several weeks went by before I got a response of backorder (not very good customer service in my viewpoint); I can deal with backorder, but let the customer know sooner so they are not climbing the walls

I'll let him try the mastercast remanufactured 158gr semiwadcutters (which I have on hand), a box of the Hornady XTP 125's, a box of Federal Hydrashok 110's, and some Winchester Silvertip 110's; next time I order from mastercast I'll have to get some of the TCJ-DEWC 148gr remanufactured loads; whatever is leftover will be 'training' ammo

 

[S&Wfan]

I carry the super-accurate 148 gn. full wadcutters in my M37. Believe me, those things will cut quite a blood trail, and one that won't close right back up like round nose HP bullets that don't expand in snubbies!

Accurate? Here's 10 yards, standing/unsupported . . . at a tiny little 1" black square:

T.

PS: Recoil doesn't bother me (I use hot loaded 300 grain hardcast lead flat nose bullets in my .44 Magnum. I use the little 148 wadcutters in my .38 snubbies because they shoot sooooo well!

 

[mainmech48]

Given the advances in both design and manufacturing technologies as applied to bullets in the last few years, the terminal performance of modern projectiles is much less velocity-dependent than ever before.

Modern JHP bullets can be and are engineered to expand reliably and deliver optimum terminal performance based on computer models developed from performance data drawn from real-world testing in a variety of standard firearms of a specific caliber. I'd suggest trying at least a couple of brands of "Premium Defense" loads and see what he is most comfortable shooting and hits best with.

There are factory loads now designed especially for use in "Short Barrels". The bullets in these have been designed specifically to give their optimum terminal performance at the velocities generated in "snubbies". Any HP design can fail to expand, but one of these would have fewer potential factors working against them, IMO.

Given the choice, I'd opt for trying the heavier projectiles first. If 158 gr. loads are too much for him to handle, then something like the Federal or Speer 135 gr. HP would be my next stop. Personally, I wouldn't go as low as 110 gr. until I'd run through all of the 125 gr. or heavier options first without finding a winner.

IMO, what's "best" for your friend will be determined more by what he can do with it than the name on the box. The only way I know of to find out what that is go shoot some samples.

 

[T191032]

"bump"

Excellent info here for my cousin, who owns one of these light-weight S&Ws. She's been shooting lighter reloads and tried the 158-gr LRN I gave her a while back the other evening and it was more than she expected. Will send her a link to this post.

 

[jjohnson]

Two Choices

Okay, I'm going to assume that a "gentleman's load" means something short of really hot loads.....

Choice if you don't handload: Speer 135-grain "short barrel" is supposed to give pretty good performance (and won't blind you ).

For reloaders, if you don't want to spend money for the better jacketed hollow points, the 148 grain wadcutters isn't a bad choice if you're sticking to a .38 snubgun. If you ever get curious, use hollow based wadcutters and load 'em backwards for a really ugly looking, crater-sized hollowpoint... Yes, they work, and they don't group bad, either....

 

[golden]

AVOID SWC non hollow point

NYPD tried this load if I remember right. Part of their "ANYTHING BUT A HOLLOW POINT" policy. I think it was even a +P version and it was just as unsuccessful as the LEAD ROUND NOSE.

LAPD tried SOFT POINT 125 grain bullets for their .38 Specials and it did not work either. SOFT POINTS require a much higher velocity to expand than HOLLOW POINTS.


My personal choice would be the NYCLAD 125 grain HP. It was a good load when I used it back in the 90's.

I am still looking at several of the non +P loads for my COLT and S&W snubbies. If NYCLAD comes back, that will be fine for me.

Jim

 

[S&Wfan]

Oops, already posted.

 

[dpeticca]

As mentioned by numerous other posters, I throw my hat in with the 148Gr Wadcutters. If you're going +P, then it's a toss up between 158Gr LSWCHP (FBI Load), and the Speer Gold Dot "Short Barrel" 135 grainers.

 

[orchidhunter]

Some of the Nyclad, when it shows up on the market. orchidhunter

 

[Elmer]

It's wonderful to see all the recommendations for the 148 grain wadcutters for a low recoil self defense load. This was the same advice that the late Gene Wolberg, forensic firearms specialist for the San Diego Police Department used to give, and Gene knew more about the effects of bullets on human tissue than just about anyone.

THR members are definitely much more knowledgeable than those of other forums.

 

[kmrcstintn]

thanks again...I'm anxiously awaiting for Bonitz (our local mom-n-pop shop distributor) to aknowledge that they will have the resurrected Nyclad 125's in stock; in the mean time I'll snag some Winchester Silvertip 110's for him

 

[Dollar An Hour]

+1 on the Nyclad... This load is exactly what you need.

 

[trilateral]

The discomfort of recoil is not the only reason not to use +P ammo in a .38 spl aluminum frame snubby, I can handle the recoil but won't use it because of the possibility that the recoil will unseat the rest of the cartridges in the cylinder causing the bullets to protrude out the cylinder and prevent cylinder rotation .
I have never actually experienced this myself but have read that others have.

 

[Crawdad]

The discomfort of recoil is not the only reason not to use +P ammo in a .38 spl aluminum frame snubby, I can handle the recoil but won't use it because of the possibility that the recoil will unseat the rest of the cartridges in the cylinder causing the bullets to protrude out the cylinder and prevent cylinder rotation .
I have never actually experienced this myself but have read that others have.

I have had this happen using cheaply manufactured ammunition, and it is irritating and unsafe. I had an entire box of Blazer 158gr +p pop the bullets out of the case under recoil, and completely lock up the cylinder - I threw the box in the trash. I have also had it happen a few times with Winchester whitebox 158 +p.