Best personal defense house gun you've owned

[deek26]

i will tell all u guys out there rightnow! that the best home defense gun that you can use to defend yourself is a 12 gauge shot gun pump action or semi, what i got is a bennili M4 semi 12 gauge and i use slugs and 00 buckshot mind you a bennili is expensive but other than that i would chose a remington 870 tac and fellas or ladies don't buy a mossburg they are cheap junk and they have a slow action but to each there own ya! know so get a good shot gun for yourself! know you can awenswer the door in confidence lol and it don't matter what kind of vest there wearing either they gettin ****ed and whoever else is with them! good luck!

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Environment

Assuming initial assessment was rational and practical, WHY?

Fred

First house was laid out favorably for carbine deployment.

Second house was problematic for any kind of long arm.

Third house was a toss-up. Could use a carbine, could use a pistol. There are just enough awkward places that I lean more toward the pistol here. With any kind of chance to prepare, I'd probably go with both the carbine and the pistol.

With some specific carbine training, I might be able to use the carbine under most conditions. As it stands, I try to tailor the arm selection to the application environment.

That make sense?

 

[historybuff]

my wife and I both have a S&W M&P 9mm on our separate sides of the bed just in case!

 

[sniknah]

my colt ar 15 is the best home defense on the planet...just saying

 

[shiftyer1]

For use in the house I have a 1911 in the nightstand and a s&w 3953 in 9mm in the kitchen. If I need to check out something outside i normally grab one of several pump shotguns. My reasoning for this is because I don't have a large home and the sg is just a little to long. Not that I wouldn't grab it if it was what was closest in a time of need. For outside work it could be anything from coyotes to feral dogs to hogs so I prefer the sg. I even have a .357 blackhawk loaded with snakeshot handy so really it just depends what closest at the time.

 

[flrfh213]

wife has her 38 and i have what ever pistol i was carring that day.... 22/357/9mm/40/45... depends on day, mood and what i pulled out of the safe... but i dont need the ak or 7mm mag for HD, that is overkill and i dont think my neighbors want holes in their walls either... rifles are too .... well i frefer a handgun for the hd end of life, my hallway is not big enough to need all that power, it is a small house...

 

[razorback2003]

38 & 9mm

I have used a 38 and 9mm for home defense most of the time. The 38 is for carry in public, the 9mm is for nightstand. The 38 is put in the nightstand when I go to sleep, but I would use the Glock 19 9mm with night sights at home b/c I shoot it better than the Airweight 38 with no night sights. The 9mm has a little stopping power.

When I lived alone in the country, I did keep a 12 ga pump Browning chamber and magazine loaded (I didn't want an intruder to hear me chamber a round) under my bed with buckshot in addition to a handgun kept in the nightstand. The shotgun could also be changed out with birdshot for pests. With police response times a possible 30 minutes when living in the country, I felt better with a handgun AND shotgun at home at night.

 

[HomeDefense]

Another critical piece of information for home defense: Ballistics

Best personal "gun" defense is spelled B-A-L-L-I-S-T-I-C-S. Whether it's practice at a range or money sunk into professional firearms training and qualifying, your best home defense will only be as good as those defending it and their knowledge of how to efficiently and immediately incapacitate their adversary.

It doesn't take years to acquire, maybe just a couple hours of research and comparison, but understanding the effects of a bullet upon entering the human body will help you make wiser decisions on what to select for home defense.

It basically boils down to this: the HEAVIER a bullet weighs, the DEEPER the penetration and the HIGHER the chances [efficiency] of IMMEDIATE INCAPACITATION. It is NOT VELOCITY that accomplishes penetration. However, they BOTH work hand in hand.

I'm a firm believer in defending what is rightfully yours and using whatever means are necessary to defend, including taking the life of an adversary posing as a threat. The only way to do this, however, is be sure that whatever means you are using to defend with WILL exact your expectations rather than disappoint them.

In the line of handguns, I've come to the conclusion that the one suitable for this scenario is with a .45 caliber. I believe the .45 AUTO has a 260 grain load too (highest I've even heard of for .45 but I don't think these are ACPs). The current standard is 230 grain (weight of the bullet) for .45 ACP and that should be sufficient for getting the job done. Every other caliber smaller than a .41 Remington Magnum is around 10mm at 205 grains and it just goes down from there. The BARE MINIMUM that ANY bullet should weigh for self-defense is 125 grains. There are countless stories of police that have responded to a narcotics scene with armed men in a car opening fire and killing two or three police, themselves being wounded by four or five 9m bullets in their backs still able to function and operate a gun. Home defense is NOT the same as range or practice.

At this point, notice that the emphasis in all this information is NOT one gun over another. Guns never killed anybody other giving someone brain damage being used as a clubbing device and if I could put together a small contraption that has a metal bore tube with something to hammer that primer in the back of the cartridge with, I'm sure somebody could get hurt if pointed in the right direction. Bullets are the killer whether it's in a Jennings or a top of the line .22 revolver. Whatever

You should also take into consideration the efficient expansion of that bullet as not all bullets expand very well. Jacketed Hollow Points (JHP) expand a little more reliably than Round Nose (RN) and from there you can get into the lead, etc etc. Why is this important? When a bullet enters the human body, it begins to expand. You can see the same effect throwing Play Dough onto the concrete, only here we're talking about a much harder substance, usually lead. As it begins to expand, physics of course takes over, that bullet is not as smooth and pointed as before and as the overall front surface area increases, the bullet will begin to decrease in velocity until it comes to a rapid but complete stop inside the body of a human body. Heavy clothing can sometimes interfere with penetration as the bullet will begin to expand prematurely upon hitting hard metal objects or material. Hence life saving stories of people having coins in their shirt pocket or a Bible that stopped a bullet and saved their life. The bullet expanded prematurely and was unable to penetrate deep enough (if at all) to damage any vital organs.

Always remember that if your motive behind having a gun at your bedside at night is to be able to defend your family in the event of an intruder seeking to harm the life of either yourself or your loved ones, once that gun is drawn on your engaging threat, you shoot to kill. Always. Anyone who has ever shot to negotiate or shot to injure or shot to temporarily incapacitate someone just long enough to put the dog leash on them is probably either dead or in jail to this day.

The key to immediate incapacitation (which is ultimately your goal in an emergency life/death home defense situation) is penetration. This is the only way you will be able to defend yourself. Not by spraying them with Bear Mace or messing around with "dummy" loads (those are loads that dummies use in their magazines when they care more about their adversary's life than that of their own family's).

Realistically, it will take more than just one round to accomplish immediate incapacitation, even with a .45 because not everyone is that perfect of a shot (unless you're Bob Munden). Observe all safe gun handling rules, do what you need to do if you are genuinely in fear for your life and just be ready to show up in court when Uncle Money shows up to press civil charges because you shot their nephew who was on their way home from feeding the homeless and "stumbled" into the wrong house. Find you a lawyer before hand (in other words, before anything happens - as in while you actually have a clear mind to think; could be today, tomorrow, this week, preferably sooner than later) and ask if they handle firearms cases. If so, try to find you one that can educate you on what you should and shouldn't do under certain circumstances and scenarios. Come up with questions and a bunch of scenarios you may find yourself in and ask what sequence of events must take place before you can pull out your gun. You may find some disagreeable information but that's

Hope this helps. Ballistics will certainly help you in making a decision on which gun to have on hand for home defense. So will practice on the range and safe gun handling techniques to make sure you can quickly and efficiently draw your gun without sweeping others (that is, the direction your gun points as you bring it on target) or putting other innocent bystandards in danger.

Remember, with great power comes great responsibility. Know your gun, your environment and your local, state and federal laws. I think that's the best home defense you could possibly have is someone who is well trained, ready and able to defend, having understood the consequences of their actions with whatever gun they own or decide to use.

Hope this helps!

Matt

 

[chieftain]

First house was laid out favorably for carbine deployment.

Second house was problematic for any kind of long arm.

Third house was a toss-up. Could use a carbine, could use a pistol. There are just enough awkward places that I lean more toward the pistol here. With any kind of chance to prepare, I'd probably go with both the carbine and the pistol.

With some specific carbine training, I might be able to use the carbine under most conditions. As it stands, I try to tailor the arm selection to the application environment.

That make sense?

Not at all.

When is less stopping power appropriate? When the ranges are very short? That seems entirely wrong, the closer the Bad guy may be when you get a shot at him, the more effective your weapons had better be. That indicates a shoulder arm, not a side arm.

I am fascinated with the “second house” being “problematical. What does that mean?

For reference:

From Dr Gary Roberts, the leading Terminal Balistics researcher in America today:

Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.

Basically all the standard service calibers work when fed good quality ammunition. The platform picked tends to dictate the caliber. For example, Glocks and Sigs tend to run best in 9 mm; the S&W M&P is the first .40 S&W pistol that seems to offer an ideal ergonomic and shooter friendly package; while a properly customized 5" steel-frame single-stack 1911 in .45 ACP is a superb, unparalleled choice for the dedicated user willing to spend a significant amount of money to get it properly initially set-up and considerable time to maintain it. For folks who want a .45 ACP pistol, but don't want to invest the funds and effort into getting a good 1911, they would be better served with a S&W .45 ACP M&P, HK45, S&W 4566, or possibly the SA .45 ACP XD.

Whatever you choose, make sure you fire at least 500 and preferably 1000 failure free shots through your pistol prior to using it for duty. If your pistol cannot fire at least 1000 consecutive shots without a malfunction, something is wrong and it is not suitable for duty/self-defense use.

------------------------------------------

The keys are:

-- Cultivate a warrior mindset

-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice

-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system

-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.

-- Keep shooting until the threat is neutralized; absent CNS hits, incapacitation is very frequently DELAYED until blood loss is sufficient to cause the onset of hypovolemic shock--this could be seconds, minutes, or hours...

-- If you are in a potential threat situation where you are feeling unusually suspicious, your senses are on high alert, you have "alarm bells going off" in your head, etc... if at all possible, it is time to employ a long gun instead of a handgun.

--Dr Gary Roberts Leading American terminal ballistics researcher.

* * *
The cogent advice by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU should be routinely heeded:

“Experienced officers implicitly recognize...when potential violence is reasonably anticipated their preparations are characterized by obtaining as many shoulder weapons as possible.”

And

“...no law enforcement officer should ever plan to meet an expected attack armed only with a handgun.”

Of course your experience and knowledge of CQB may be such that you would recommend or use other weapons than these professionals.

If you know any CQB instructors recommending using a handgun instead of a shoulder weapon, please advise of us them.

America is free for folks to chose to prove Darwin’s theory.

Go figure.

Fred

Stupid should hurt

 

[HomeDefense]

or possibly the SA .45 ACP XD.

Tactical 5" ;-) Also a very good choice.

 

[natman]

Folks,
Shotguns with proper defensive ammo (slugs or 00, 000, or #1 Buchshot) over-penetrate more than an AR15 loaded with defensive ammo.

It is a ballistic fact. There are no disputes with the science.

Just saying something is indisputable doesn't make it so. You need to back it up. Like this:

According to these tests a 223 from an AR penetrated considerably farther than 12 ga buckshot.

Here's the original test where the AR penetrated 12 drywalls or 12 pine boards and kept on going as compared with the 8 drywalls for the buckshot.

Buckshot penetrates less than a 223 rifle, but either will penetrate enough to endanger other occupants of a normal house. So will any other round that penetrates enough to provide a quick stop.

Moral of the story: Don't miss.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Training

First house was laid out favorably for carbine deployment.

Second house was problematic for any kind of long arm.

Third house was a toss-up. Could use a carbine, could use a pistol. There are just enough awkward places that I lean more toward the pistol here. With any kind of chance to prepare, I'd probably go with both the carbine and the pistol.

With some specific carbine training, I might be able to use the carbine under most conditions. As it stands, I try to tailor the arm selection to the application environment.

That make sense?

Not at all.

When is less stopping power appropriate? When the ranges are very short? That seems entirely wrong, the closer the Bad guy may be when you get a shot at him, the more effective your weapons had better be. That indicates a shoulder arm, not a side arm.

I am fascinated with the “second house” being “problematical. What does that mean?

[ . . . ]

Of course your experience and knowledge of CQB may be such that you would recommend or use other weapons than these professionals.

Fred, it's more about my trust in my own ability to use a carbine under certain CQB conditions rather than the carbine itself.

Under "normal" conditions (for appropriate values of normal), the carbine is preferred, even taking into account my lack of formal training.

I am fascinated with the “second house” being “problematical. What does that mean?

The second house had a ghastly layout. Closed stairwells with tight corners, walls in awkward places, poorly placed entrances. We resolved after less than two months there that we wouldn't be renewing our lease if we had any choice in the matter.

M.C. Escher tried to render our house, but found it confusing . . .

​

Again, with proper training, I might have had the confidence to deploy a carbine there and, given that I also have a significantly shorter carbine, albeit in a pistol caliber, that might have been viable. Lack of practice with the short carbine led me to exclude it in preference of the 4-inch .357 (7-shot) revolver.

Now that we're no longer living in an Escher lithograph, I find the new place more carbine-comfortable. I've also become substantially more competent with a pistol, while practice with the carbine has lagged.

Hopefully, by the end of the summer, I'll have had more time with the carbines and be able to re-evaluate.

Remember, it's not the carbine that needs the training, it is I who need that.

 

[Claude Clay]

house hasnt changed but kids age & needs change.

BHP and a lever 45LC have had the most use.
my daughter keeps a 20 pump in her room.
i file [1040] the dogs teeth annually.

 

[Publius1688]

Browning 12 ga auto, loaded with 00 Buck. However, I'm investigating a Saiga 12 ga, with a 10 round clip, and a folding stock.

 

[The Annoyed Man]

Well, we have a 12 gauge Mossberg, and several AR15s, and each of those may be a better choice, but the gun on my dresser is a USP Compact in .40 S&W with an Insight M2 tactical light mounted on it, and the long guns are in the safe. If I were going to go for a long gun, I'd probably use my AR carbine for reasons others have stated above, but there isn't a way for me to keep it handy in my bedroom. Too much other junk in the way. The pistol on the other hand sits on my dresser, right next to the bed, out of the way but easily accessible.

 

[rjmckee]

For years when our 3 pups would set up a ruckus I'd check our the area with my Rem 870.
We live in a rural area and our alarms (pups or outside lights go off) 2-3 times a month. I sleep with a CPAP and I realized that we needed to have a new plan. The shotgun was too unwieldy for room to room clearance. Tried the M4, was OK but what we do now is:
1. dear wife belts me in chest and I arise with handgun and light as fast as I can.
2. While I am fumbling and stumbling wife grabs the M4 ready to go. Typically she is behind cover with the carbine and I search. When all clear I usually find the pups are behind me, way behind me. We have many deer that travel through our yard traveling from one creek to another. 3 times they have bumped into our bedroom wall. It is crazy because the walls are 6" with brick exterior. I don't believe they are interested in our shrubs but they really can get me outta my mask quickly.
We are happy with our plan(s) as they evolve and we practice often.

 

[Dulvarian]

I use a .45ACP (Glock 21) with Extreme Shock ammo. Well, that's what is loaded in it. The second mag is +P hollowpoints. Say whatever you want, there is nothing in the world (that might be in my house) what I can't kill with 26 rounds from a .45. If I had a better place to post pics too, I would just post pics of them. I also have a G&P M3 flashlight mounted on the lower rail.

I am concerned about overpenetration. I live in a suburb with houses all around me. While I don't think a .223 round would have a lot of energy trying to exit through the brick exterior, I do worry if it was going out a window or something. Oh, and there are 3 kids in the house.

The dog alerts us before anything gets to the house. The alarm alerts us in there is anything inside the house. There was some comment on alarms being useless because of the delay... most of them can be set to variable delay. Mine stays on instant. The house is pitch black at night. When the house is dark, that LED light looks like just a really really really bright flashlight. The hotspot also makes for a really nice sight picture. Not even really trying, you can just center the light on the bad guy... Made my wife happy when I put the light on.

 

[scotthsi]

fellas or ladies don't buy a mossburg they are cheap junk and they have a slow action

What the hell are you talking about? The Mossberg 500 series shotguns are some of the most time tested and reliable shotguns ever. I bought mine used in 1987 and NEVER had a single problem with it with God knows how many shells of all kinds through it, both mine and the previous owner(s). "Slow action"...***? How is it "slower" than any other pump shotgun? I put an 18.5" barrel on it and it's a great handling short shotgun for home defense with 00 buck.

 

[larry_minn]

Like most it has changed over yrs. Started with 12 guage. (mainly Rem 870) to handgun for time.
Now its G21 till I get to the AR. Wife gets 870

 

[DeepLiquid]

Winchester 1300 with 00 buck, a S&W .357 in one nightstand and a S&W .38 in the other.

 

[ArmedBear]

When is less stopping power appropriate?

I'll bet that you choose to use less stopping power than you could, with every single defensive firearm you own.

Do you use .458 Winchester Magnum for home defense?

No?

It's available in short rifles.

Go get one!

Then again, if you're not using .600 Nitro Express, you're still using less stopping power.

So, unless you're holding a .600 NE, you obviously deserve to die, just as you said in your post.

CQB =/= HD

Handguns can be carried, stashed, and secured in ways that carbines can't.

CQB implies foreknowledge: you know you're going into battle, or at least that you're going somewhere "hot".

Home defense implies home, where 99.99% to 100% of the time, you're not doing battle, you don't expect a battle, and you're not prepared for battle. Should I have to defend my home, I'll take a handgun in my pocket or stashed nearby where I can grab it quickly, over all the carbines in the world that are NOT next to me.

This isn't just about ballistics, and your own quote from Dr. somebody says that VERY CLEARLY.

I've seen one too many of these "carbines are everything and if you use a .45 you will die!" posts. They're just plain stupid, because defense with a firearm is not just about ballistics.

 

[jakemccoy]

870

It's reliable, I know it well because that's what I use for clays. Also, 00 Buck should get the job done.

 

[rick2497]

I keep a M&P 9mm with me almost all the time and have a short barrel 12 with a pistol grip stock and high capacity at home if the shi- really hits the fan.

 

[CTGunner]

Sig P226 with Sig Tactical Light and 20rd magazine.

 

[HardShell]

AR carbine with EOTech, Surefire forend, and suppressor -- instant-access safe mounted in the wall right beside the bed.

(Save the arguments. I used to be a staunch "shotgun for HD" guy too, and my wife's go-to is still an 870. I haven't been able to get her to come with me to any of the defensive carbine courses I've attended... yet! )