Cryogaijin
Member
My 700 shoots under a third of a MOA with match grade hunting ammo. So 30-06? 
Best Rifle/Caliber for North American Hunting?
- Thread starter epijunkie67
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I have lots of guns that I view as tools for different purposes, hunts...etc. But if I was going to pick one rifle that would be my all around big game rifle it would be a stainless bolt action (pick your favorite brand) 30-06 with a decent quality 3-9x40 or 4-12x40 scope (again pick your favorite brand).
My personal choice is a Savage 116 Weather Warrior with a Nikon scope.
My personal choice is a Savage 116 Weather Warrior with a Nikon scope.
God Guns American Cars
Member
Not a hard question to answer at all. .30-06 Springfield in most any common commercial bolt gun. (Ruger M77, Win Model 70, Rem 700, Savage 110, etc.)
Don't forget the optics. Leupold Rifleman 3-9 power.
You can kill JUST ABOUT anything in the world provided you are a good marksman and also good at selecting correct ammo for a given application. All for 500-700 dollars, if you're a good shopper, less if you buy quality used.
Don't forget the optics. Leupold Rifleman 3-9 power.
You can kill JUST ABOUT anything in the world provided you are a good marksman and also good at selecting correct ammo for a given application. All for 500-700 dollars, if you're a good shopper, less if you buy quality used.
lizziedog1
Member
The Daisy Red Ryder Rifle. Yes, I understand that the round is a liitle bit on the light side. But with a 500 round capacity you could do a lot of damage. Not to mention it is a small and light rifle, easy to carry around all day. Mounting a scope on it might be a problem, but open sights have advantages too.
Imagine the versatility of this rifle painted in a camo theme. You could sneak right up to a bear then.
Imagine the versatility of this rifle painted in a camo theme. You could sneak right up to a bear then.
mcdonl
Member
Here in Maine we have a lot of different terrain. In some areas, your hunting the thick stuff... I mean thick! A scoped bolt action is worthless, a lever action with iron sights are the way to go.... but in other spots that same lever action with iron sights is going to limit your range. So, for my state anyway... there is not perfect gun. Some just decide on where they will hunt the most and pick the best gun for that situation but most just own several
God Guns American Cars
Member
bryank30, I'm no genius, but as far as power goes, if you are customizing a cartridge/powder/projectile in .308 to match .30-06 standards, I think you might be able to just custom load a .30-06 to once again best the .308... It really makes sense.
mcdonl, I have lived in Maine all my life, and hunted regularly since the age of 10... I have yet to be in such thick brush I can't use my .30-06 on 3 power to shoot an animal. If you really hunting in that thick of brush, you must have ninja skills to sneak up on whatever you're hunting. Not that a lever gun isn't better in the woods, obv it would be... but if you could only have one, would you really take the lever gun?
mcdonl, I have lived in Maine all my life, and hunted regularly since the age of 10... I have yet to be in such thick brush I can't use my .30-06 on 3 power to shoot an animal. If you really hunting in that thick of brush, you must have ninja skills to sneak up on whatever you're hunting. Not that a lever gun isn't better in the woods, obv it would be... but if you could only have one, would you really take the lever gun?
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35 Whelen
Member
I voted for the '06 and I never hunt with one; target shoot only. My primary, all-around, "serious" hunting rifle is a .280 Remington. A 160 gr. Nosler Partition at a hair over 2900 fps should, and has, handled just about everything. I have nothing against wildcats and even own a 257 AI, but is the 280 AI that much of an improvement over the standard 280?
I pick the '06 over the 280 because of the wide availability of a huge variety of ammunition.
35W
I pick the '06 over the 280 because of the wide availability of a huge variety of ammunition.
35W
Old Time Hunter
Member
People seem to ignore this point. That and he is not looking for extra long range.
Leaky Waders
Member
30-06 - mines an 1895 lever and is a very nice shooter. But you're going to have to use iron sites unless you do a little fiddling to add some optic mount. A BAR or model 70 would be better actions imho for a do it all.
My father has a BAR 30-06 that I might inherit someday (hopefully a very long time from now) therefore my BAR is a 270...just to be different. It's a safari model and I love it. We also have 7mm08's in model 70 featherweight, a very light carrying/kicking gun. Despite our other calibers this is our do it all rifles since they are compact, lightweight and fun to shoot regardless of one's stature. I have a nib 257 weatherby to play with once I return from the middle east. It should be a very flat shooter and considered do it all too.
I own a 1886 45-70 and like the gun and the round but don't consider it a preferred do it all gun, but wouldn't feel bad if it was the only rifle I owned. I also have a couple ar legos and would not consider these anything more than toys and teotawki style rifles.
My father has a BAR 30-06 that I might inherit someday (hopefully a very long time from now) therefore my BAR is a 270...just to be different. It's a safari model and I love it. We also have 7mm08's in model 70 featherweight, a very light carrying/kicking gun. Despite our other calibers this is our do it all rifles since they are compact, lightweight and fun to shoot regardless of one's stature. I have a nib 257 weatherby to play with once I return from the middle east. It should be a very flat shooter and considered do it all too.
I own a 1886 45-70 and like the gun and the round but don't consider it a preferred do it all gun, but wouldn't feel bad if it was the only rifle I owned. I also have a couple ar legos and would not consider these anything more than toys and teotawki style rifles.
Maverick223
Member
You may be (and probably are) right in that the loads were simply pushed too far, thus leading to the extraction problems. OTOH it is more likely to have feeding problems due to the shoulder as well. Again, with a little work i'm sure it would be fine but I am just not sure that the risk is worth the reward (for me anyway).Coal Dragger said:
God Guns American Cars
Member
Join Date: February 24, 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 16 bryank30, I'm no genius, but as far as power goes, if you are customizing a cartridge/powder/projectile in .308 to match .30-06 standards, I think you might be able to just custom load a .30-06 to once again best the .308... It really makes sense.
mcdonl, I have lived in Maine all my life, and hunted regularly since the age of 10... I have yet to be in such thick brush I can't use my .30-06 on 3 power to shoot an animal. If you really hunting in that thick of brush, you must have ninja skills to sneak up on whatever you're hunting. Not that a lever gun isn't better in the woods, obv it would be... but if you could only have one, would you really take the lever gun?
__________________
If you think American cars are inferior, you're an idiot
True, the case of a 06 are a 1/2 inch taller, so you can get that much powder in one. Brass cost more, and if you handload batches of say 100 rounds the increase in powder is noticeable.
Member
Join Date: February 24, 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 16 bryank30, I'm no genius, but as far as power goes, if you are customizing a cartridge/powder/projectile in .308 to match .30-06 standards, I think you might be able to just custom load a .30-06 to once again best the .308... It really makes sense.
mcdonl, I have lived in Maine all my life, and hunted regularly since the age of 10... I have yet to be in such thick brush I can't use my .30-06 on 3 power to shoot an animal. If you really hunting in that thick of brush, you must have ninja skills to sneak up on whatever you're hunting. Not that a lever gun isn't better in the woods, obv it would be... but if you could only have one, would you really take the lever gun?
__________________
If you think American cars are inferior, you're an idiot
True, the case of a 06 are a 1/2 inch taller, so you can get that much powder in one. Brass cost more, and if you handload batches of say 100 rounds the increase in powder is noticeable.
Coal Dragger
member
Maverick223,
Out of a staggered box magazine I could see the 40 degree shoulder presenting issues, but my Cooper uses a single column magazine and has a nicely finished feed ramp into the chamber. The rifle feeds just as smoothly as other M52's I have handled in .270, and .30-06 which is to say very smoothly indeed. You may give up a round or two in the magazine with a single column unit, but they are smooooooooooth.
I am sure it helps when the manufacturer of the rifle designs it with feeding steep shoulders in mind, as opposed to re-barreling a receiver never intended for cartridges with 40 degree shoulders.
Out of a staggered box magazine I could see the 40 degree shoulder presenting issues, but my Cooper uses a single column magazine and has a nicely finished feed ramp into the chamber. The rifle feeds just as smoothly as other M52's I have handled in .270, and .30-06 which is to say very smoothly indeed. You may give up a round or two in the magazine with a single column unit, but they are smooooooooooth.
I am sure it helps when the manufacturer of the rifle designs it with feeding steep shoulders in mind, as opposed to re-barreling a receiver never intended for cartridges with 40 degree shoulders.
CowboyTim
Member
Lever action...why not look into a used Savage Model 99? Could go with .308, 300 Savage or even 7-08.
Jason_W
Member
I'd go with something adequate for the game I'm going to hunt, but also really fun to shoot.
Maverick223
Member
Coal Dragger, I can see your point. A single stack magazine will certainly reduce the chances of a feeding issue (and the claw extractor will help with extraction).
I didn't realize that Cooper used a single stack magazine design. Call me picky but i'm scratching that one off the list (just too big of a PITA to load, I think i'm going to stick with staggered mags from here on out).
I didn't realize that Cooper used a single stack magazine design. Call me picky but i'm scratching that one off the list (just too big of a PITA to load, I think i'm going to stick with staggered mags from here on out).
Lots of choices and lots of cartridges, all good. But why try to cover everything with just one?
Sure, I survived a long time with 1 bolt action rifle chambered in .25-06. It never let me down. But along the way I gave it some thought and added something larger. Larger was a bolt action 700 Classic in .300 H&H Mag.
Now I was covered for just about anything I'd encounter in the US and Canada. But I didn't stop there. To me it's more fun to tailor the cartridge and gun to the game I want to hunt.
So, at present I have:
1. Win 94 in .30-30 for hunting in brush country.
2. Rem 700 in .22-250 for varmints around where I live in a somewhat populated area.
3. Rem 700 in .25-06 for when I want to reach out a long way for medium sized game.
4. Win 70 in .308 because I wanted one.
5. Rem 700 in .300 H&H Mag for big game.
Sure, I survived a long time with 1 bolt action rifle chambered in .25-06. It never let me down. But along the way I gave it some thought and added something larger. Larger was a bolt action 700 Classic in .300 H&H Mag.
Now I was covered for just about anything I'd encounter in the US and Canada. But I didn't stop there. To me it's more fun to tailor the cartridge and gun to the game I want to hunt.
So, at present I have:
1. Win 94 in .30-30 for hunting in brush country.
2. Rem 700 in .22-250 for varmints around where I live in a somewhat populated area.
3. Rem 700 in .25-06 for when I want to reach out a long way for medium sized game.
4. Win 70 in .308 because I wanted one.
5. Rem 700 in .300 H&H Mag for big game.
Coal Dragger
member
Maverick223,
Yep single stack detachable magazine, holds three rounds plus one in the chamber if you choose (which is plenty for me).
Beautifully made magazine, heavy gauge (really heavy) stainless steel with a machined and polished follower, and a machined base plate. Loading is really easy but you have to take the magazine out of the rifle to do it. I had some reservations about the detachable magazine at first but the release is well fenced in and flush with the bottom metal so it doesn't catch on anything and dump the magazine out on accident. Plus it is pleasing cosmetically compared to most other detachable magazines, in fact it looks for all the world like a floor plate. Kind of like a SAKO 75/85 detachable magazine which are also excellent. I will say it is really really convenient to be able unload and show clear without dumping a handful of shells out, or running them all through the chamber out of a blind magazine. I suppose at some point I might also buy a spare magazine for quick reloads, but the rifle feeds very well just dropping a loaded round on top of the empty mag in the receiver too.
Just read an article in Shooting about a Nesika Bay in .280AI that ran a staggered box magazine, and the author encountered no problems with feeding, and went so far as to call the theoretical feeding issues bunk in a side bar.
Yep single stack detachable magazine, holds three rounds plus one in the chamber if you choose (which is plenty for me).
Beautifully made magazine, heavy gauge (really heavy) stainless steel with a machined and polished follower, and a machined base plate. Loading is really easy but you have to take the magazine out of the rifle to do it. I had some reservations about the detachable magazine at first but the release is well fenced in and flush with the bottom metal so it doesn't catch on anything and dump the magazine out on accident. Plus it is pleasing cosmetically compared to most other detachable magazines, in fact it looks for all the world like a floor plate. Kind of like a SAKO 75/85 detachable magazine which are also excellent. I will say it is really really convenient to be able unload and show clear without dumping a handful of shells out, or running them all through the chamber out of a blind magazine. I suppose at some point I might also buy a spare magazine for quick reloads, but the rifle feeds very well just dropping a loaded round on top of the empty mag in the receiver too.
Just read an article in Shooting about a Nesika Bay in .280AI that ran a staggered box magazine, and the author encountered no problems with feeding, and went so far as to call the theoretical feeding issues bunk in a side bar.
Maverick223
Member
I don't mind the capacity (two shots has always proven enough for hunting and one usually gets the job done), but single stack magazines are a pain to load, and don't allow you to top it off. Personally I prefer a hinged floor plate on a hunting rifle anyway.
Keep talkin...you bought have me convinced to have the local smith run a reamer through a Remmy 7600 .280Rem. Every rifle is different, but what kind of velocity increase should I expect?
jiminhobesound
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Model 95
Maverick223. Don't rechamber, go get a model 71 with the Redfield peep sight. My father killed an elk at 200+ yards,
Maverick223. Don't rechamber, go get a model 71 with the Redfield peep sight. My father killed an elk at 200+ yards,
Maverick223
Member
I already have an 1895, and I like it (not a real big fan of the 1886 or M-71, and the .348 Winchester is a hard cartridge to find bullets for)...just don't like the chambering (currently .30-06Spd). I think .35Whelen would suit it nicely. The .280Rem. (of some sort) that I mentioned would be in a Remington 7600 pump rifle, not in the the model '95.
Coal Dragger
member
Maverick223,
According to my handy Nosler Reloading Manual, 6th Edition the .280 vs .280AI breaks down like this with pressure tested loads:
120gr Bullets: 3286fps max for the .280, and 3396fps for the .280AI.
140gr Bullets: 3152fps max for the .280, and 3265fps for the .280AI.
150gr Bullets: 2995fps max for the .280, and 3107fps for the .280AI.
160gr Bullets: 2929fps max for the .280, and 3045fps for the .280AI.
175gr Bullets: 2760fps max for the .280, and 2828fps for the .280AI.
So for sheer velocity the .280AI has the most significant advantage in the 120-150gr bullet weight range, with only a slight advantage in 160-175gr bullets. This is not much of a surprise since the heavier longer bullets affect both cases nearly equally in how much powder space they take up.
What I did find interesting is that for the researchers at Nosler, with their test barrels, the .280 was more likely to display the best accuracy results with maximum velocities with the 120gr bullets, where the .280AI did not shoot as well at max velocities with the 120gr pills.
With 140gr bullets, the .280 only showed one powder listed as shooting the best groups with a maximum charge for a 140gr bullet, and that was IMR4895 which is a medium rate powder that only gave 2840fps. The .280AI on the other hand displayed top accuracy at maximum charge weight with three different powders including the most accurate powder tested, IMR4831...3222fps, as well as IMR7828 3241fps, and the velocity champ RL22 3265fps.
In 150gr bullets the .280 is listed as liking a wider range of powders at full charge with top accuracy, for example the most accurate powder tested was IMR4350 with a maximum charge producing 2870fps. The .280AI displayed top accuracy with a max charge of H4831SC for 2994fps, which honestly is not much of a difference, although if your target velocity is higher Viht N165 managed 3055fps at maximum charge with best accuracy, which is still higher than anything the .280 could manage.
In the 160gr bullets we see the most accurate powder tested in the .280, RL19, not liking a maximum charge instead delivering best accuracy at a reduced charge good for 2710fps, compared to AA3100 in the .280AI as the most accurate powder tested liking a maximum charge good for 3013fps. In general in the 160gr bullets for Nosler the .280 did not seem to like maximum velocities as well as the .280AI which was able to break the 3000fps barrier with best accuracy (for that powder) with three different powders. For example IMR 4350 is listed for both cartridges as performing well with max charges under a 160gr bullet, the .280 gets to 2810fps and the .280AI nets 3002fps.
From what I can see of the data the 175gr bullets were not exactly stellar in either case, with the .280 using Viht N165 giving best accuracy at a measly 2468fps; and the .280AI not doing much better delivering best accuracy using IMR7828 good for 2644fps. Note neither of these were a max load, and if the max loads of the most accurate powders tested also were to give acceptable accuracy then the .280 would reach 2661fps using the N165, and the .280AI could touch 2828fps with the IMR7828. Of note both cartridges listed best accuracy for given powders at max charge with other powders, for example the .280AI gave good accuracy with RL22 at 2808fps and the .280 with IMR4831 at 2760fps.
Of course all of this is speculative since every barrel is different.
According to my handy Nosler Reloading Manual, 6th Edition the .280 vs .280AI breaks down like this with pressure tested loads:
120gr Bullets: 3286fps max for the .280, and 3396fps for the .280AI.
140gr Bullets: 3152fps max for the .280, and 3265fps for the .280AI.
150gr Bullets: 2995fps max for the .280, and 3107fps for the .280AI.
160gr Bullets: 2929fps max for the .280, and 3045fps for the .280AI.
175gr Bullets: 2760fps max for the .280, and 2828fps for the .280AI.
So for sheer velocity the .280AI has the most significant advantage in the 120-150gr bullet weight range, with only a slight advantage in 160-175gr bullets. This is not much of a surprise since the heavier longer bullets affect both cases nearly equally in how much powder space they take up.
What I did find interesting is that for the researchers at Nosler, with their test barrels, the .280 was more likely to display the best accuracy results with maximum velocities with the 120gr bullets, where the .280AI did not shoot as well at max velocities with the 120gr pills.
With 140gr bullets, the .280 only showed one powder listed as shooting the best groups with a maximum charge for a 140gr bullet, and that was IMR4895 which is a medium rate powder that only gave 2840fps. The .280AI on the other hand displayed top accuracy at maximum charge weight with three different powders including the most accurate powder tested, IMR4831...3222fps, as well as IMR7828 3241fps, and the velocity champ RL22 3265fps.
In 150gr bullets the .280 is listed as liking a wider range of powders at full charge with top accuracy, for example the most accurate powder tested was IMR4350 with a maximum charge producing 2870fps. The .280AI displayed top accuracy with a max charge of H4831SC for 2994fps, which honestly is not much of a difference, although if your target velocity is higher Viht N165 managed 3055fps at maximum charge with best accuracy, which is still higher than anything the .280 could manage.
In the 160gr bullets we see the most accurate powder tested in the .280, RL19, not liking a maximum charge instead delivering best accuracy at a reduced charge good for 2710fps, compared to AA3100 in the .280AI as the most accurate powder tested liking a maximum charge good for 3013fps. In general in the 160gr bullets for Nosler the .280 did not seem to like maximum velocities as well as the .280AI which was able to break the 3000fps barrier with best accuracy (for that powder) with three different powders. For example IMR 4350 is listed for both cartridges as performing well with max charges under a 160gr bullet, the .280 gets to 2810fps and the .280AI nets 3002fps.
From what I can see of the data the 175gr bullets were not exactly stellar in either case, with the .280 using Viht N165 giving best accuracy at a measly 2468fps; and the .280AI not doing much better delivering best accuracy using IMR7828 good for 2644fps. Note neither of these were a max load, and if the max loads of the most accurate powders tested also were to give acceptable accuracy then the .280 would reach 2661fps using the N165, and the .280AI could touch 2828fps with the IMR7828. Of note both cartridges listed best accuracy for given powders at max charge with other powders, for example the .280AI gave good accuracy with RL22 at 2808fps and the .280 with IMR4831 at 2760fps.
Of course all of this is speculative since every barrel is different.
Maverick223
Member
CD, thank you for the additional information. Looks like I am looking at about 100fps difference, not bad but not spectacular either. I will have to give that some consideration (and see what reamers the smith has on hand). BTW, the 7600s had measly little 22.5in. barrels (i'd much rather have a 24in.+ for this particular chambering), so I think I might be on the low end of the spectrum.
Coal Dragger
member
The other consideration is what you can realistically expect for velocities in ammunition you are likely to want to reload. I for one dislike loading to maximum charge weight if I can avoid it and still get acceptable velocity and accuracy. Most ammo makers also hate to load to near maximum pressures (for obvious reasons).
When you back the loads off a bit into reality, or near factory levels you'll end up with the .280 pushing a 140gr bullet near 2990-3000fps, and the .280AI pushing the same bullet at 3150fps or so. In both cases you would be using realistic loads that won't have pressure spikes due to higher temps, and other misbehavior on the part of the ammo.
When you back the loads off a bit into reality, or near factory levels you'll end up with the .280 pushing a 140gr bullet near 2990-3000fps, and the .280AI pushing the same bullet at 3150fps or so. In both cases you would be using realistic loads that won't have pressure spikes due to higher temps, and other misbehavior on the part of the ammo.
pikid89
Member
270 or 30-06
people call the 7mm mag good for everything, but i feel it is too much for almost everything east of the misssissippi and south of the mason dixon...does too much damage on white tails
my choice? ruger M77 MKII All Weather .270 Win
people call the 7mm mag good for everything, but i feel it is too much for almost everything east of the misssissippi and south of the mason dixon...does too much damage on white tails
my choice? ruger M77 MKII All Weather .270 Win
Maverick223
Member
CD, that is true. While I typically like to use the maximum load that affords acceptable accuracy (after all a hot load is no use if you can't hit the intended target), I see your point. I like to test my loads on a hot, humid day to ensure that they are within pressure specifications and will perform when required without the aid of a screwdriver.
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