Best scope for $1,300? Newbie needs advice!

[DocHarman]

This is my first THR thread, so thanks for reading!!

I am presently in the market for a rifle scope to be mounted on a .308. I am wishing to develop my "long range" skills (700-1000 yards); mostly benchrest scenarios, but possibly some hunting.

I have about $1,000-1,300 to spend.

My "requirements":
1) QUALITY glass... amazingly clear, dawn-to-dusk coverage, et cetra
2) variable power... I want the high end to be x20/25/32/36.
3) illuminated reticle... mil-dot (or similar) to help with range acquisition
4) 30mm or higher main tube and highly adjustable turrets (zero stop?)

I have been reading THR threads on the scope subject. The three scopes which hardly ever get bad reviews are:
1) Zeiss (Diavari VM/V)
2) Leupold (Mark 4 LR/T)
3) Nightforce

***Schmidt & Bender excluded

I have done some homework, but I really need some expert advice on the subject. !!!! Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!!!

 

[355sigfan]

Take a look at the Nightforce line.
Pat

 

[OrvilleYertleson]

What kind of rifle do you have? And by benchrest do you mean competition benchrest-type shooting or just shooting off a bench at the range?

If you are just shooting for fun then you might not want to get a super high-power scope but rather a moderate variable or even a fixed power that will have better light gathering abilities and a much greater field of view.

I say this because I had a 37 power scope on my anschutz smallbore rifle some time ago and I tried to go squirrel hunting with it. The magnification was great but my field of view was so narrow I wasn't able to reference what I was seeing through the scope.

 

[TechBrute]

I LOOOOVE the Nightforce scopes.

 

[Lupinus]

Not to get all off track, but I love when a guy at the range with fancy expensive stuff gets outshot by old timers with equipment a 1/4 of the cost.

1,300 for a scope?

Buy a nice one even upwards of 500, spend the extra on a new rifle or ammo.

 

[BsChoy]

+1 with lupinus

Why would you need to spend that much?? If you really want to get rid of it send it too me I'll put it too good use and get the most out of it!! Anything you can by for between 500.00 and 750.00 should be more than enough

 

[TechBrute]

Not to get all off track, but I love when a guy at the range with fancy expensive stuff gets outshot by old timers with equipment a 1/4 of the cost.

1,300 for a scope?

Buy a nice one even upwards of 500, spend the extra on a new rifle or ammo.

Why would you need to spend that much?? If you really want to get rid of it send it too me I'll put it too good use and get the most out of it!! Anything you can by for between 500.00 and 750.00 should be more than enough

This clearly isn't a discussion that should include these people. Ignore their arbitrary limits on spending based on irrelevant things like THEIR budget and some idea that a scope is too nice for certain rifles.

 

[Lupinus]

No, it says newbe needs advice, which I gave. Buy a nice scope, but don't waste your money. Has nothing to do with can you afford it or not, wasting money on total overkill is wasting money on total overkill.

There is zero to be gained buy spending 1300 on a scope over spending upwards of 700

 

[garrett1955]

This clearly isn't a discussion that should include these people. Ignore their arbitrary limits on spending based on irrelevant things like THEIR budget and some idea that a scope is too nice for certain rifles.

yeah what he said. it's your money spend it how YOU want!

now.

I have a leupold on my 30-06 and love it. the glas is so clear, it picks up so much light. it's just an amazing scope.

I am going to put another leupold on my .50 cal that I am getting this spring.

probably that one http://www.riflescopes.com/products/LEU60070/leupold_8.5-25x50_mark_4_lr_t_30mm_riflescope.htm

I havent yet decided which one.

I have read from other sites, and forums that the nightforces are very heavy, and the glass isn't what one would expect it to be for the price, you are paying for the fancy knobs and stuff.

 

[Schleprok62]

Just for the sake of throwing this in the ring... but, have you seen this:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/68364-6355-1900.html

8-32x42mm Horizon Long-Range Varmint & Target Riflescope, Mil-Dot Reticle, 1/8 MOA, Black Matte, Warranty
Item #: 68364
Our Low Price: $80.24

Specifications/features:
8-32x magnification
42mm objective lens
Mil-dot reticle
Heat-treated Horizon high-def. lenses enhance brightness
Fully multi-coated lenses
4.0mm exit pupil at 8x
11' to 3.5' field of view at 100 yds.
3.25" eye relief
Easily modified finger-adjustable windage & elevation knobs
1/8 MOA
Waterproof, fogproof & shockproof
Long-range scope
Black matte finish
Unconditional lifetime warranty

 

[Chris Rhines]

There is zero to be gained buy spending 1300 on a scope over spending upwards of 700

Provably untrue, and indicates that you don't know much about what you are talking about.

DocHarman - first things first, go here and read: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=154213

For $1300, you can't go wrong with a Leupold MkIV. I don't know as much about the Nightforce line of optics, but I've heard some things about glass quality and chromatic aberation that would make me think twice (regardless, have a look before you decide.)

- Chris

 

[Lupinus]

Provably untrue, and indicates that you don't know much about what you are talking about.

I know enough to know that there is zip to gain in reality by spending that much on a scope. He is free to spend his money how he likes, sorry if I don't tell him how to best flush his money though and instead offer other options

 

[Schleprok62]

ok... you two, fight nice...

I'm no expert at this stuff, but, for the sake of point/counterpoint, what is the breakpoint in getting a good product for ones money, and paying for a name, in rifle optics?


I'm really curious myself...

 

[Rembrandt]

$1300 may not get what you want....some of the scopes you've mentioned are closer to $1500-$3000. Many shooters never spent more than a thousand on top quality glass and will not understand why good optics are better. For them it's just a price thing. After you've had top notch glass it's hard to go back to a cheaper scope. I'm a big fan of Swarovski....incredible clarity.

 

[MCgunner]

Can't you get a Schmidt and Bender for that price range, around $1300? Man, if I could afford a Schmidt and Bender, I'd have one on everything I have, $300 Savage, even, ROF! Those are the clearest, best glasses I've ever put an eye to hands down! All else pale in comparison. However, for the 7-800 dollar range, you can have stuff like Ziess, European optics. Drop down to the $400 range and you are in the Burris. I don't particularly jump on the Leupold band wagon. I consider them $150 scopes selling for the 4-500 dollar price range. My broke butt really likes Weaver, which I consider among the best of the best for under $400 and they're under $200 scopes.

Don't even consider stuff below that price range if you can afford it. Bushnell works if you just can't afford more. I have one, looking to replace it with a Weaver eventually. Don't even THINK about Simmons, most over-rated JUNK that ever was advertised as good. Junk, plain and simple.

But, I'd seriously be looking for the best optics made, Schmidt and Bender, if I had a $1300 scope budget! I know an old fart with a half dozen rifles and every one of 'em is topped by a Schmitt and Bender. He has weatherbys, sakos, etc, no run of the mill Remington 700s, LOL. I wish I was in that old man's will, LOL!

I haven't priced high end scopes in a while, so I'm probably off. Whatever you get in that price range is bound to be better than anything on MY rifles, though, LOL.

 

[Lupinus]

I'm no expert at this stuff, but, for the sake of point/counterpoint, what is the breakpoint in getting a good product for ones money, and paying for a name, in rifle optics?

Anymore then 700, maybe 800 and you are simply paying for gains that have no real world advantage. Good for bragging maybe, but there is nothing good shooter can do with a 1500 dollar scope he can't do with a 500 dollar one. Better? Quite possibly. Noticable differeces? Maybe. Better results? Not really....unless you want to do matches and try picking off quarters at several hundred yards. But for the most part no real gain and it is just for show.

 

[Chris Rhines]

I know enough to know that there is zip to gain in reality by spending that much on a scope.

Would you care for a list of features that are not available, anywhere, on $700 optics? It will not be a short list.

I stand by my statement.

I'm no expert at this stuff, but, for the sake of point/counterpoint, what is the breakpoint in getting a good product for ones money, and paying for a name, in rifle optics?

A reasonable question, but a tough one to answer. I don't think that there is a hard-and-fast price point, above which you gain no utility. For example, you could call up US Optics and drop $3500+ on a scope, and you would know exactly where each dollar went. On the other hand, that $3500 scope might not be suited of the kind of shooting you want to do.

Best suggestion that I can offer is to figure out exactly what kind of shooting you want to do, as specifically as you can. Then figure out your budget. Then figure out what scope both meets your budget and your shooting requirements.

- Chris

 

[Lupinus]

Would you care for a list of features that are not available, anywhere, on $700 optics? It will not be a short list.

Sure. Delete off of it all the things that make no real world difference and I will gladly read it.

 

[dakotasin]

and back to the original question and subject matter...

for $1300, there is only nightforce... the 22x nxs is the way to go. do not get the benchrest model.

for a little more money, us optics is where its at. for a little less money leupold and zeiss are the contenders.

if i could afford it, all of my target and long range rifles would have nightforce and us optics. they are far too heavy to put on a hunting rifle, but for long range precision (ie where gun weight is not much of an issue), they are tops.

schleprok- an 8-32x scope for $80 would end up giving you a massive headache, and have you chase your wandering zero all day.

 

[Chris Rhines]

Sigh.

Zero stop on elevation dial.
Single-turn elevation knobs.
Sufficent elevation adjustment to shoot to 1000+ yards with a .308 rifle.
Mil-scale adjustments.
Reticles with ranging and hold-over features over and above the standard mil-dot.
Reticles that match the elevation and windage adjustment scales (a feature that should be far more common.)

I'll gloss over the mention of mechanical durability and glass quality, since these aren't really features. Nonetheless, they are more present in higher-dollar optics.

So, again?

- Chris

 

[DocHarman]

Zero stop on elevation dial.
Single-turn elevation knobs.
Sufficent elevation adjustment to shoot to 1000+ yards with a .308 rifle.
Mil-scale adjustments.
Reticles with ranging and hold-over features over and above the standard mil-dot.
Reticles that match the elevation and windage adjustment scales (a feature that should be far more common.)

Chris,
I agree with your recommendations above. So what scope has all these features, or what scope could at least be "upgraded" to meet these specs? It seems a Leupold Mark IV is coming through as a top contender... but which reticle, and which knobs? M1-2-3?

Also, it appears Schmidt and Bender is popular (duh!) but high-power and illuminated reticle on a S&B are out of my price range.

Also, Nightforce? It seems nightforce has some devout followers. But should I trust it over Leupold Mark IV?

Thanks sooooooo much for your help!

 

[Chris Rhines]

All of them? Mmmmm. Tough one. Only ones that have all the features I mentioned above would be the S&B PMII and the U.S. Optics SN-3, both of which are quite a bit over your $1300 limit.

You can get away with discarding some of those features, though. If you have a reticle that allows you to accurately hold off for range and windage, you can probably do without some of the adjustment features, single-turn elevation knob, identical scales on the reticle and adjustment dials, etc.

A Horus H25 reticle will let you hold off out to 1000+ yards with a 100-yard zero. This is a very useful feature to have. If Horus is offering the H25 reticle in a Leupold MkIV M3, that might be the best option that comes in under your budget. Worth the call to Horus, anyhow.

- Chris

Edit - When you call Horus, ask about their Falcon Model 1000. It might also do the job.

 

[Harold Mayo]

Sure. Delete off of it all the things that make no real world difference and I will gladly read it.

I don't exactly have a puppy in this spat but I tend to agree with Chris. Viewed objectively, there is a HUGE difference in quality between a $700 scope and a $1300 scope.

"Real world" difference? Could you define that? Maybe that's the key to the difference in opinions. If you're talking about mounting a higher-end scope for hunting within reasonable ranges (let's say out to 200 yards or so), then you're right. If you're talking about shooting for the best accuracy out at 800 or 1,000 yards, then you'd be wrong.

You talk about a "good shooter" doing this and doing that but, at some point, a shooter becomes only as good as the tools that he has. A "good shooter" can't win an F-class comptetion with a C&R Mauser sporting a $30 Wal-Mart scope...but the same shooter CAN with a $2,000 accurized bolt gun and a $2,000 scope.

It's all a matter of perspective and what you want to do with it, I guess, but I'll have to disagree that there is no "real world" difference. There are, indeed, diminishing returns from a certain price point and up (and, IMO, it's somewhere around the $700-800 point) but a $1300 scope will show marked better qualities than a $700 for almost any task.

 

[Infidel]

Did you peruse the sticky thread at the top of this Rifle forum? Zak Smith's post starting the thread is as good information as you can get.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=154213

Of the choices you presented,-- Zeiss.

 

[Rem700SD]

Not having read all the previous posts, I'll add my $.02.
My first observation is that you are putting this scope on a .308. I'm a huge fan of good glass, but I think that you are wanting too much glass for a .308 cartridge. .308 has the ballistic arc of a rainbow. I'd take a serious look at your applications and rethink what you want from your caliber/glass combination.
A second note on magnification. Practical magnification for shooting at 1000 yds or so is around 20x. Above that things get fuzzy, mirage, etc. Anything with a large amount of magnification will be terrible for hunting(deer,elk, etc), due to seriously diminished field of view.
If you already have the rifle, I'd recommend a leupold vari-X III or something similar, in a 3.5-10x. If you are more dedicated to targets than hunting, I'd look at the 6.5-20(or similar) if that's available.
All that said, I have a Nightforce 12-42x56mm on my .300WinMag, and I love it. I can spot my own bullet holes at over 300yds. However, when I shoot it's on 12 power, or 22(rangefinding). At 42x your heartbeat, breathing, and mirage become distractions. The illuminated Mil-dot reticle is awesome once you learn how to use it. I was hitting 2 liter bottles at 400yds with no difficulty a couple days ago.
My .308 wears a 3.5-10 Leupold Vari-X III which I also love. I would recommend against getting the bullet drop compensator, as the elevation adjustment is too course.
Lastly, this past couple of days I shot two other rifles, both of which had Nightforce scopes on them. The .308 I shot had a 5(?)- 15 power scope. The REAL thousand yard gun I shot had a 6-20 power NF mounted on it also. It was an AR-30(.338 Lapua) that shot impressive groups at 1000yds. My first group was hand-sized w/3 rounds at 1000!!!!
I've never used zeiss, so I can't comment on them.

In short, I think you'd love the NF for long range work, but on a dedicated long-range caliber.