Best SD gun for small, weak, arthritic hands?

[Amish_Bill]

My mother has very weak hands and very little arm strength.

So far the only pistol she can work, carry and shoot properly is a Beretta 21a is .22lr. I've been looking for something bigger and better for her, but I have yet to find it.

I'd love to find her a revolver but what I've found she can't hold up or can't handle the DA triggerpull. A mid sized auto would be great, but she can't work the slide.

:-(

On the good side, that little 21a rides in her purse just about everywhere she goes.

 

[fjolnirsson]

the foam feel's like having airplane stripper poured in your eyes

That's the best description I've heard. The stuff's nasty.
The thing is, I know I'm an unusual example. However, most rookie's aren't hopped up on psychotropic drugs when they're sprayed. Some street thugs are. Do I keep pepper products around? Sure, as I said before, they're a great intermediate force option, for those who have time. They simply aren't the fight stopper they've been touted as. I've seen a lot of guys shrug them off, mostly steroid freaks.
YMMV.

 

[mnrivrat]

I'd love to find her a revolver but what I've found she can't hold up or can't handle the DA triggerpull. A mid sized auto would be great, but she can't work the slide.

My aunt has the same problem with shooting DA . She can cock the hammer back OK , and that is how she shoots. (sa only) My personal opinion is that works OK , and like I told her, after the first shot you will likely find the strength to work the DA !!

The tip up barrel of the Beretta's helps with loading, but there is still that DA trigger pull to deal with unless you cock the hammer the first time.

Her hand strength would not allow her to deal with what many suggest in carbines and shotguns either. Pulling the bolt back on a 1100 20ga. for example is not possible for my aunt. The same would be true for many of the rifle carbines mentioned.

That's why I still recommend a J frame size revolver in a caliber no bigger than the 32 mag , with the ability to shoot light loads like the 32 short and long. And although other manufactures make some pretty nice small frame revolvers, I see no reason not to stick with S&W as they make a quality gun of the right size, weight, and caliber.

 

[trueblue1776]

Thanks for explaining to me what a carbine is there Burt.

 

[bogie]

I'd go with a carbine. You can stuff 10 or so rounds of 110 or 125 grain .357 hollowpoints into a 16" Winchester. It's light, it's compact, the trigger ain't all that bad, and it's light. The light rounds don't recoil all that much. And the Giant Ball Of Fire from the business end is really interesting. Downside is you need to work the lever. Up side is that it doesn't require any real dexterity.

I'd stick with a 20 gauge or smaller shotgun. With a youth stock.

An M1 carbine would also be interesting, if she can manage to work the action. Hook a few fingers on it, and yank...

Anyone in Vermont wanna take these folks shooting?

 

[Shipwreck]

If you can find a full-size Walther P99 A/S or SW99 - you can set it for a S/A trigger pull - that is fairly light, and how I usually carry the gun. It also has 3 adjustible grips, which she can swop out to fit her hands best.

The only issue is that she probably won't be able to work the slide on any typical semi-auto pistol. And second, recoil will be a bit more in a polymer handgun. But, this would take care of the trigger issue for you.

Remember, though, U can get a Glock and have someone work on it to bring the trigger pull down to 3 pounds. But with an older lady, it might not be a wise idea to have a trigger that light.

Everyone says to get a rifle are carbine. But unless she has grown up around that large of a weapon, I don't think that is a good idea. It is heavier, and it would take some practice for an old lady to learn how to handle it. I took my 65 year old mother out shooting for the 1st time in her life 2 months ago. I know what I had to go thru to explaint how to use the sights and everything. I dodn't see my mom easily using a rifle w/o a lot of instruction. It's harder to teach someone that old than it would be for you or me to learn it.

Too bad Beretta doesn't make the 86 model anymore. It was a 280 pistol with a tip up barrel.

 

[Amish_Bill]

...

The tip up barrel of the Beretta's helps with loading, but there is still that DA trigger pull to deal with unless you cock the hammer the first time.

...

I'm going to guess you've never handled a 21a before. The triggerpull on that model (both DA and SA) is one of the lightest and smoothest I've ever felt.

Hmmm.... j-frame in .32 mag. The could be a nice option. Does anyone make an aluminum or titanium j-frame in .32mag? (don't think she could hold up a steel one - really, really weak arms)

 

[lbmii]

As mentioned by some of the others a S&W 32 mag. Model 431PD:

If you get the 32 MAG let her shoot it with 32 S&W Longs to learn how it works but then load it with 32 Mags.

Or you might consider the S&W 22 MAG. Model 351PD with an easy to see light gathering front sight.

Here is the link: http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...d=10001&productId=14744&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

 

[meef]

I'm casting my lot with those suggesting the M1 carbine. Light, handy, little to no recoil for all purposes, and easy to work when loaded and ready to go.

 

[Squidward]

My thoughts are that you start with what you can afford! If it's a gun you want, go to the nearest range and shoot the guns you think will fill the bill. Then look for a used weapon.

In the meantime, start with exterior home security. Call the local cops. Most will come to your house to do a "security evaluation". Most depts have a Community Services section whose main job is to do neighborhood Watch type presentations. They will check to see if it is up to par or an easy target for breakins. Things like trimming back bushes from the windows and walls to increase visibility as you approach and eliminate hiding places for crooks. Exterior lighting and stout locks are also a plus.

Alarms are pricey. If you cannot afford one, go get some stickers from an alarm comapany ( or the internet?) that say the premises are alarmed and post them on windows and doors. If the cops can't help you, many here probably have low cost-no cost ideas to share.

 

[dsgrntldPW]

Well Mr. Oldphart sir when I read your post I thought about myself reaching my seventies and what I would want under the circumstances you describe. My first thought was what has already been listed- the lightweight S&W 431PD in .32 magnum. Being a S&W the quality is very good and if the trigger pull feels heavy to you or your wife most any gunsmith worth their salt can lighten and tune your trigger. The ability to familiarize and practice with the lighter .32 Long ammo should also help. S&W also makes one in .22 Magnum, the 351PD I believe. It would also be a good choice. In your situation my handgun preference is definitely a revolver over an auto pistol for simplicity/ease of operation.

If you choose a long gun a .410 semi-auto shotgun may be good, if your wife can handle something that size. In a small rifle I would look at the proven Ruger 10/22. With decent ammo it will make most people think twice about continuing their illegal activities after they have been shot. And with magazines available holding up to 50 rounds without reloading you should be able to hold your own with a 10/22. In a higher caliber rifle look at the inexpensive Hi-Point 9mm carbine. Quite accurate and very dependable overall so far. While you may have to cycle the action yourself to chamber a round, if you have no children or other immature people around the gun could be kept ready to go with the safety engaged for you or your wife to use if needed. Its only drawback may be the weight. I'm not sure any long gun may be appropriate for you because of the weight/handling issue though.

I too believe you should not discount pepper spray. Look at the large cannisters with the wide-area spray they make specifically for defending against animal attack, not the small presonal size cannisters. They have larger controls that should be easier to operate under stress. Look at the 'heat unit' ratings, the higher the better. Try to get at least 2 million SHU or higher.

While not always true I believe that most of those who prey upon the eldery are themselves weak and cowardly. When confronted by any type of active resistance, a firearm, pepper spray or dog, they will most likely retreat. And it is the weaker ones that have to move out from the cities to seek their victims, they cannot compete with the hardened city dwellers. Shooting someone like that with even a .22 LR will more than likely cease their hostilities. It cannot be stressed enough that whatever you choose to use, you and your wife need to get some training and practice in using it. And do not forget proper eye and hearing protection when practicing. Stay safe.

 

[mnrivrat]

I'm going to guess you've never handled a 21a before. The triggerpull on that model (both DA and SA) is one of the lightest and smoothest I've ever felt.

You guessed wrong . Now I get to guess that you and many others haven't dealt with the weak arthritic hands of an elderly person. ( OK - I know you have , but others apparently haven't )

The 21A "may" work but you are still looking then at a standard .22 RF for self defense. While better than nothing I don't recommend it if there is a better alternative. And I think there is .

Not only do I think there is a better alternative , I think there is one that fits within the realm of what the poster asked for . He didn't ask for recommendations on how to protect his home - he already decided he wanted a handgun. I think the guy is wise enough to know there are other things that one can do for protection, and guns other than handguns that are available.

Therefore I still recommend the guns so gratiously pictured by lbmii .

 

[Amish_Bill]

I'll be looking for a 431/432/451 to hold in my hands. If it's all everyone here says it is, I may have found Mom's Christmas gift. Until then, I still haven't found a better all around package for her than the 21a.

 

[revolvergeek]

A Ruger 10/22 with the stock cut short enough to fit her with either Williams Fire Sights or some sort of red dot scope, and a couple of Butler Creek 25 rnd mags full of Stingers clipped together. Low noise, light wieght, very fast follow up shots (shoot everything that gets in front of it 3 or 4 times) and 50 rounds of ammo every time that you pick up the gun. The bolt is easy to cycle and it should be dead reliable regardless if her technique is perfect or not.

It may also look a lot more intimidating than a smallish handgun would to most people, which should not be relied upon to solve the problem, but can't hurt.

 

[procomps]

If you can find a Berreta 84 .380 with tip-up barrel, then have a bit of trigger work done to lighten the pull, you will have a more powerful version of the 21A. You would have to get a used one or a leftover NIB since that model has been discontinued.

 

[Charlie Oldphart]

Hi guys,

What a terrific bunch! It is really great to receive so many good ideas from folks who have our best interests at heart. Not everyone agrees and thats fine. I appreciate every opinion.

Some questions were asked of me and the answers will give you a better idea of our situation,

We live in a one and a half story house located on a dirt road about five miles from town. Police protection is next to nil. The State Police probably would get lost and they are too busy anyway. We are "protected" by the County Sheriffs Department. There are about 20 men in the department which is headed by an openly female lesbian. I kid you not!!!!!!!! (There, I've probably offended some one and will get kicked off the board for not being politically correct). She actually got elected on this platform. Anyway, morale has gone to pot and we have ended up with high turnover and the type of cops who sit downtown in their mini vans a pass out speeding tickets. I would like to hear from LEO types relating to morale in your depts.

This is what I am hearing from you folks:

1. Get a dog.
Yes. The decision has been made. In fact, we had a Rottweiler up until two years ago when it died. We will get some professional help in training , also.

2. Get an alarm system.
I think some type of motion alarm system that would at least turn on outside lights would be in order.

3. Take wife to a range where she can try out various types of weapons before choosing . Absolutely, we will do it!

Now, as to my own leanings, from listening to you folks, what little research I have done and some past experiences.

We have decided that we need two guns for her. A house gun and a CCW for her purse. The purse is the fanny pack type worn in the front.

House gun. I'm leaning toward a short carbine such as the Beretta Storm in .45 caliber. Need more research. Definitely, not an M1 carbine. Why? Pure predjudice!! Damn thing nearly got me killed in Korea in 1950! I know, I know, that doen't make it a bad house gun in 2005. Thank you to those who suggested it. Just my personal hang up. If you care to read the story, go to the Rife Forum, look under "Who used an M1 Carbine in WW11", Post #28.
Thinking about it now, I probably should kept my mouth shut and not posted it at all. I apologize to any Korean Vet who did not needed to be reminded of his service in Korea.

CCW gun. From what I hear is that even the best auto might jam . Even once. I don't think my wife could clear it, I just don't want to take the chance. That leaves revolvers and I'm hearing strong support for .357 caliber that will also take .38 Special light rounds. I'm thinking a quality piece with a 3 or 4 inch barrel. Make sense?

There are so many good ideas, shotguns,Pepper spray, etc. I'd love to have one of each! I've got to do a lot of research.

Guys, thank you so much for your ideas. I really appreciate them.

God Bless You and Yours!

Charlie

 

[IV Troop]

Charlie,

I have seen this problem before. This may sound odd but I have a different suggestion. An S&W K (medium) frame 22 revolver would work quite well. Either 22 long rifle or 22 mag.

They are far more effective than people give them credit for. I have investigated numerous shootings involving 22s and they far deadlier than people realize. I know people will talk about instant stopping power and incapacitation and other such topics.

I don't read wound ballistics books or study charts. I can only tell you what I have seen work in a career in law enforcement.

They are easy to shoot well. Thumbing the hammer back is doable with a little practice and recoil will not hurt or scare her into not using it in the first place.

I know many an elderly person who uses a 22 and I would not want them shooting at me.


I did not see the picture of the J frame 22 mag posted above. That would make a great purse gun for her. I would still go with a K frame 22 for the home.

 

[Browns Fan]

Quote:
"That leaves revolvers and I'm hearing strong support for .357 caliber that will also take .38 Special light rounds. I'm thinking a quality piece with a 3 or 4 inch barrel. Make sense?"

If you do go with a .357, get one that has a rubber grip that does not have an exposed metal backstrap (she will feel the recoil thru the metal, trust me,I know ). I highly recommend a Taurus revolver that has the Ribber grips. They are THE best grips for taming recoil. It even makes shooting .38's in a .357 that much easier.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

IV Troop has some good thoughts. I'm a fan of the 1911 for self-defense carry, but I also own an Italian copy of the old Colt 1873 Peacemaker. No cowboy action shooting around here (that I'm aware of), but I do like to read up on it. And one trend I've noticed is that a lot of 6-gun manufacturers are now offering cowboy guns in .32 caliber. Seems to work well for kids and women of small stature, who can't handle the weight and recoil of larger revolvers. For example, Ruger offers one in .32 caliber on their Single Six frame -- the frame that the popular .22LR/.22WMR is built on.

Both S&W and Taurus build small revolvers chambered in .22LR and in .22WMR. The magnum, in particular, could be more useful than many give credit for as a self-defense round. Negligible recoil, and fits into a compact package.

Speaking of package, Charlie, remember that your wife isn't going target shooting. You mentioned a 3" or 4" barrel. That much length isn't necessary at typical self-defense distances. It isn't necessary to be able to shoot out a gnat's eye at 25 paces -- she just needs to be able to hit center of mass (or center of head) at 7 yards or so. The longer barrel offers the possibility of getting hung up when trying to draw from a fanny pack, and with weak and arthritic hands, wrestling the gun with the bad guy bearing down is probably not in your wife's best interest. Personal opinion, of course, but to me a 2" barrel would be a lot easier to handle ... irrespective of caliber.

 

[pete f]

try a ladysmith revolver, lighter trigger and easy to grab crip shape.

My mother for years has relied on an old remington tube feed 22, 17 rounds of LR, even her hands can make the bolt cycle, now she has moved up to a 20ga model 1100. we had her try the bolt and it was a bit stiff, but
i showed her how to use the door frame in a pinch and now she is very happy. her hands are arthiritc as are her hips and knees, but she finds a20 ga auto to be just fine.

 

[tgfang]

More support for considering 32 Magnum revolver, if a carbine is too unwieldy:

My wife has rheumatoid arthritis. She was able to shoot my Taurus Ultralight 32 Magnum OK; the recoil did not bother her, but she did not like the balance of the evne that light, snub nosed revolver (too much weight forward). She has a Taurus TP-22 which she can shoot. She likes the balance of the pistol, but cannot grip it tightly enough to have reliable cycling. The TP-22 and the Beretta 21 have tip up barrels so it is not necessary to work their slides to chamber the first round. If your wife can comfortably hold either the Taurus of S&W 32 Magnum revolver, one of them might be a good bet for her.

As for a carbine, can your wife handle the weight? If so, one would probably be easier to shoot than a handgun.

As for a small .357/.38 revolver, even the recoil of .38's in one of those is likely to more than your wife will wnat to practice with. A larger .357/.38 may be too heavy to wield effectively. Even if you can't find a place for your wife to shoot the gun before buying, it would be a good idea for her to handle the propsective purchase. I have been surprised more than once by what my wife considers to be too heavy; as an example, she felt that a Tuarus 905 (22 oz., I believe) was much too heavy.

Tom

 

[Mad Chemist]

I vote for the 20ga and a revolver. I think the .32S&W and .32H&R are good suggestions. Since money is not an issue, take the gun to skilled and reputable smith. Tell him who it's for, and that the DA trigger must light and smooth.

More importantly, you should consider making your home a harder target. Lights, doors, locks, landscaping, and dogs, can all contribute to home security. Don't spend a ton of money on firearms only to neglect essential home security.

 

[Amish_Bill]

...I have been surprised more than once by what my wife considers to be too heavy; as an example, she felt that a Tuarus 905 (22 oz., I believe) was much too heavy.

Tom

Earlier today I handed my mother two 9oz bottles of mustard and asked if she could hold them out. (someone suggested a 17oz gun earlier) She could not. It can be absolutely amazing what restrictions arthritis & lupus can place on someone's self defense options. :-(

 

[Essex County]

Hey Charlie, Thank for the responses

I guess there is no correct answer...But you've been given a bunch of good advice. I feel that the proper dog is a great idea. What's more important is your MINDSET, and you've already got that togeather. We're so blisfull up here sometimes we totaly forget that crime dosen't stap at the geographical border. The best to you and the Mrs. Sincerely, Essex

 

[Dr.Rob]

Nothing wrong with a sheriff being 'openly female' Charlie.

Seriously if your mind is set on a long arm (I realize you disdain the .30 cal Carbine --though with softpoints it's a whole different critter)... I'd still suggest a break-action double... looking OVER the sights/bead is a lot different than looking THROUGH the sights on a Storm...

The Ladysmiths are great guns... I even know a few guys that carry them