Best Sniper Rifle out of the box for $1000 or less?

[Scout Sniper]

Like Myself, most of us say Savage Tactical /w Accutrigger

 

[Rockrivr1]

+1 with USSR

The FN PSR is an excellent choice. I've had one for a few years now and I've never had an issue. I put a Leopold 4.5-14X40 adj obj scope on it and I can really reach out and touch something when I need to. They are a little more expensive, but so far it's been worth it.

 

[Freelance Tax Collector]

I have a remington PSS or 700P as it is now called in .300 winchester magnum with an IOR 10x56 scope. I'd post pictures if I had some. The whole setup was about $1400. Get a quality rig and you won't be sorry. You're gonna probably want to try going the cheap way and getting a stock hunting rifle and putting optics that will "hold you over" until you can get better glass. You will spend less money if you buy that $1400 rig now with the scope, mounts, bipod and all, than getting the stock rifle and upgrading it later.

The PSS already has the essential gear for precision shooting. It has an HS precision stock and free floated bull barrel. I put a lot of money into my scope because I wanted an IOR, but you would easily be served with the super sniper from SWFA as well

 

[Red_SC]

I'd have to say Rem. 700P with Super Sniper, 'cause that's what I have, and couldn't be happier with it.

With the Farrel mount riser, are you best off with low or medium rings?

What would be the increase in range be from the 308 model to the 300 WM? Can the 308 Model be rebarreled for the 300WM?

Thanks
Ss

I had the Farrell base with low rings, and even a 50mm objective looked like it was 1/2" from the barrel. I ended up selling it and getting a TPS base and low rings, and my 42mm Super Sniper still clears easily. The Farrell is really, really high, and unless you're scope is a Hubble lookalike, low rings should work.

The 300 WM has a significantly longer range than the .308. I'm not an authority because I've never stretched the legs on my .300, but the .308 is getting close to it's limits by 1000, a couple of loads can go a little farther. The .300 still has several hundred yards left, and will have less drop and wind drift getting to 1000. That extra performance isn't free, though. You pay for it in extra recoil, noise, and cost, and much shorter barrel life. Even if you reload, you will use almost twice as much powder and your case life is shorter with the .300.

You can't rebarrel a .308 to .300 WM. Factory .308's are built on a short action, and the .300 WM takes a long action.

 

[Freelance Tax Collector]

The 168 grain match bullet from a .308 and a 24 inch barrel will go subsonic at 770 yards. A .300 win mag will go further than I am capable of shooting. I'd guess it goes subsonic at 18 or 1900 yards with most match loads.

Oh also, unless you want a super sniper or think you'll be doing some rough field use, get a variable power scope. And don't be convinced that a large objective= better. Typically you can get better accuracy if your scope bell is closer to the bore. I chose the 56mm IOR because I wanted the low light capablity and it was the cheapest high power in IORs line. Imagine that, the fixed 10x with a 42mm objective is $250 more.

Oh Yeah, and don't friggin cheap out on mounts either. You will regret it if you do. Make sure you get steel mounts and steel rings from a reputable company. I used leupold. Almost anyone who makes good scopes will also make good mounts. Just remember that you do really get what you pay for. The lower end of the price spectrum is where cheap crap is at with some very rare exceptions (like the super sniper). Also, don't believe that you need a really high power scope for anything but benchrest competition or .50 bmg shooting. IMO for most standard calibers, 12 power is the absolute maximum that anyone really needs.

 

[Scout Sniper]

Thanks Everyone who replied to this. Everyone has a preferance for him's or her's favorite Rifles. God Bless you all & lets prey for the safe return of all our troops overseas. again think you all.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

The 168 grain match bullet from a .308 and a 24 inch barrel will go subsonic at 770 yards.

I shoot Federal's 168 gr. match out of a 24" bbl, and it will easily stay supersonic beyond 900 yards at sea level, and will usually go to 1000 yards at slightly higher elevations (above 2500 feet).

A .300 win mag will go further than I am capable of shooting. I'd guess it goes subsonic at 18 or 1900 yards with most match loads

Even with the heavier 190 grain match loadings, a .300 Win Mag will only stay supersonic to about 1400 yards. If you want 0a .300 win mag will stay supersonic at 1800 yards you better move to the Swiss Alps.

Typically you can get better accuracy if your scope bell is closer to the bore.

The distance between the scope and the bore doesn't affect accuracy, it only affects the shape of the trajectory of the bullet relative to the bore. Some of the best benchrest guns ever built set their records using Nightforce's 56mm benchrest scope.

Can the 308 Model be rebarreled for the 300WM?

As Red-SC said, no, but you can rebarrel to 300 WSM, which is arguably a better long range .30 cal choice than .330 win mag anyway. 300 WSM offers the same ballistic performance as 300 win mag while offering the accuracy advantages of using a short action.

BTW, I would go with the Remington 700.

 

[USSR]

The point at which any bullet goes subsonic is determined by it's BC, it's velocity, and the atmospheric pressure (altitude) at which it is fired.

Don

 

[Red_SC]

As Red-SC said, no, but you can rebarrel to 300 WSM, which is arguably a better long range .30 cal choice than .330 win mag anyway. 300 WSM offers the same ballistic performance as 300 win mag while offering the accuracy advantages of using a short action.

BTW, I would go with the Remington 700.

The .300 WSM also has no belt, which is a distinct advantage IMHO.

 

[Freelance Tax Collector]

I'm just saying what works for me in the world according to freelance. I shoot in the utah desert so I have some range to work with.

The first high power centerfire rifle I shot long range with was a 1917 enfield sporter with a "periscope" type mount. I think that it had a lot more felt recoil than the .300 I have now. Part of this I think was due to not getting a very good cheek weld, but I was still able to shoot 2.5" groups @100 yards with good nosler ammo.

Now I really feel like I have graduated since I got my .300 win mag last year. On it sits an IOR 10x56mm which I am considering replaceing with the 42mm model. I don't know. IOR makes damn good scopes though.

 

[nyresq]

from RED_SC: The .300 WSM also has no belt, which is a distinct advantage IMHO.

why does not having a belt make it better?

from BLACK RAZOR: 300 WSM offers the same ballistic performance as 300 win mag while offering the accuracy advantages of using a short action.

what advantage does a short action have in terms of accuracy?

not trolling, but seriously, I never heard either of these statements and was wondering what they were based on, as I have seen several long action rifles used as precision rifles including .300 win mags and 7mm mags.

please explain

 

[FNFiveSeven]

what advantage does a short action have in terms of accuracy?

Well, there's a lot of theories out there about this topic. Some people say that the shorter actions are stronger, and therefore they flex less during firing, which results in greater accuracy. Others say that the shorter the case, the more uniform the burning of the powder, which will give you more consistent performance = more accuracy. I think that the accuracy gain is mostly due to the latter reason, although the former doesn't hurt.

To verify this, just look at the .308 vs. 30-06 comparison. Despite near identical ballistic performance (the 30-06 is slightly faster), the .308 WAY outperforms the 30-06 in the accuracy department at all ranges.

Furthermore, look at all the specially designed benchrest and PPC cartridges out there, e.g. .22 BR and 6mm PPC. These are super short, very fat cases, and they can consistently shoot sub 1/4 MOA groups at 100 meters, sometimes even better.

Not sure about the disadvantage of using belted cases, but I do know they are an older, pretty much obsolete design... no new cartridge today has a belted case.

Lastly, you shouldn't have to worry about sounding like a troll just because you are looking for some basic info, learning about shooting is what this board is supposed to be all about.

 

[jpdviper]

hey need some advice

Tikka with optics is well below that range and shoots sub MOA out of the box. I got a Leupold vari-X 3-9x and the gun itself is chambered in 7mm rem.
Rem 700 is slightly more and also good quality.
Savage is decent with some work and very cheap.

Any of these guns is capable of sniping if you are.

Hey ive purchased the remington 700 SPS .300 ultra mag. is this version as good as the 700 p and will it shoot sub moa out of the box,

 

[el44vaquero]

How about one of those Dragunov Sniper Combos?

 

[CDignition]

Dragunovs are a bad choice, and not cheap..

look in the for sale area..I have a custom rifle for sale, 300 Wm.. and I disagree with the belt theory above...Mine shoots under 1/2 MOA all day..

 

[Powderman]

All day long, huh?

I'm sure that the builders of custom rifles that can really do that All Day Long will be dismayed.

I have a Winchester M70 in .300 Win Mag. The smallest group I have fired in it so far has been about .330, for 3 rounds at 100 yards.

I fired a 3 round group that measured a hair above 4 inches at approximately 700 yards with this rifle. (Going by my friend's measurement, not mine).

Load used:

175 grain Sierra MatchKing
71.0 IMR 4831
Federal standard primers
New or once fired cases
Seated to 3.510 OAL

This load chronographs at 2980 from my rifle.

By the way, with the exception of my glass bedding, the rifle is box stock. And yes, it WILL do it all day long.

 

[TMAS]

Stinkyshoe,
If your Savage has unreliable ignition, I would look to see if the firing pin protrudes out far enough from the bolt face. Then adjust the firing pin spring for more pressure if needed. I added more spring pressure to mine and the problem went away. BTW, I never had a problem with it until, I completely dissasembled it, had a machinist do some lathe work on the new bolt head and reciever. I installed a new 6mmBR barrel. When I reasembled the firing pin and spring, bolt assembly, I didn't do it exactly correctly, the first time.

Don't get me wrong here. I really like the accuracy of my Savages and the price, plus the ablility to change barrels. But for a Real Sniper rifle, the Savage wouldn't be my choice. I think the extractor is too cheesy for one thing.

I would choose either the CZ or Winchester (because of the controlled round feed) or a Remington 700P. I'm not too fond of Rem's extractor but the military seems to like them, and they do more sniper shooting than me. But, I'm not a sniper. I might have to go over $1000 bucks with this setup, but what the heck would I care because Uncle Sam would pay for it. Heck, If I was still in the military, they would just issue it to me.

Now for long range paper or varmint shooting, I'd probably put the Savage up at the top of my list, and use the money saved for good mounts and glass.

 

[Darth Ruger]

why does not having a belt make it better?

A belted case headspaces off the belt, whereas a non-belted case headspaces off the shoulder, which provides for more precise alignment of the bullet with the bore. Supposedly.

 

[MDG1976]

I got this group with my Savage 10FP in 308. It's 5 shots from 75 yards (the 100 yrd post in my lane was broken). Ammo is Federal Match 168 gr. The gun was under $500.

 

[bogie]

Re: the Choate stock: That being said, it will work for prone or bench shooting, and is a slight improvement over the tupperware stocks found on the cheap Savage models. If you want a real stock, save up your $$$ and get a McMillan.

I beg to differ... it may work okay for prone, or with a bipod, but the design of it almost completely precludes using any sort of unattached front rest, including improvised stuff like rucksacks.

And I own one.

And I second that - give Kelly a call...

 

[bogie]

You can't rebarrel a .308 to .300 WM. Factory .308's are built on a short action, and the .300 WM takes a long action.

That's not the reason - the .308 boltface is smaller than the .300 Winmag boltface... It'll work just fine for the .284 case variants tho...

 

[bogie]

My definition of "all day long" goes something like that...

5 targets, 5 shots each for the record group, with moving and stationary backers. Each target is allowed 7 minutes, and must be finished within that 7 minutes.

No called fliers. No excuses. Bring money.

For an interesting article on accuracy shooting, look at this month's Outdoor Life.

 

[rockstar.esq]

That's not the reason - the .308 boltface is smaller than the .300 Winmag boltface... It'll work just fine for the .284 case variants tho...

Savage rifles have a unique bolt design that allows the bolt face to be changed to any size within the action length. I hate to rain on your parade but the 300 win mag IS SIGNIFICANTLY LONGER than the .308win.

As for ballistic differences, personally I think the difference in trajectories is blown WAY out of proportion. The .45-70 had a great reputation for long range shooting in it's day. It had a huge rainbow trajectory for a 1000yd shot. The point is that consistency is more significant than trajectory. For all the added ammunition cost of the .300 win mag you could have practiced so much more with the humble .308 and gotten the job done just as effectively. It's not like many of us are actually attempting a shot on a living thing at these extended ranges.

 

[Powderman]

My definition of "all day long" goes something like that...

5 targets, 5 shots each for the record group, with moving and stationary backers. Each target is allowed 7 minutes, and must be finished within that 7 minutes.

No called fliers. No excuses. Bring money.

For an interesting article on accuracy shooting, look at this month's Outdoor Life.

At 100 yards? The only thing that gives me pause is that I do not have access to a range with moving target backers.

Would some good witnesses do?

 

[Darth Ruger]

Would you gentlemen mind commenting on the short comings of the Maj. Plaster 'tupperware' stock?

SniperCountry has an article that's highly critical of that stock:

http://snipercountry.com/InReviews/Choate_USS.asp