Bicyclist gets 12 years in rage incident

[dev_null]

None of this ad hominem dreck has any bearing on the case. If the jury had believed that the shooter was trying to protect himself from all of those bad drivers you have experienced, they would have found for the defendant. Saying "he was probably driving like a jerk" is compete fabrication and totally irrelevant to the facts of the case. I don't care if you've biked the bloody English Channel, it has nothing to do with this guy getting what he deserved.

God help us all if some people here serve on juries. :banghead:

 

[Cosmoline]

When I was younger and rode my bike a lot more, I did have an incident where a car of teens cut me off and I gave them the finger. They then tried to run me down. Thankfully I was a cycling machine in those days and was able to lose them in Eugene's back streets. They got confused and ended up chasing and beating up the wrong cyclist.

The jury got to hear all the facts in this case, but there's no doubt in my mind that there are many cirucmstances where a cyclist would be justified shooting a driver. There are few things in life more terrifying than having a car try to run you down when you're on a bike.

The one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that the truck driver was an absolute fool for going back to challenge the insult.

 

[spacemanspiff]

i think that the reason why the majority of people have no sympathy for bicyclists in general is because they think they belong on the road and not the bike path. they think that motor vehicle traffic should give them space on the roads, when only (in my opinion at least) only motor vehicles should be on the actual streets.

but even then its been my experience that bicyclists tend to have little respect for anyone in their paths, even on dedicated bike/walking paths. they ride dead center in the middle and force everyone else to get out of their way unless they want 200+ lbs of metal and flesh to slam into them.

if bicyclists want to be respected they need to show respect to other drivers, pedestrians, etc.

 

[DRZinn]

i think that the reason why the majority of people have no sympathy for bicyclists in general is because they think they belong on the road and not the bike path.

Check the laws, spiff; they do belong on the roads. If there's a bike path, most will use it, but usually that's not the case.

 

[Sindawe]

I've been on both sides of this issue. Years ago when I was in Elementary School, I was riding my bicycle home from school, on my side of the road toward the curb when some dude in a Camaro swerved toward me like he was gonna run me down. I flipped the idiot off, so he did a U-turn and cut me off. He grabbed my jacket and told me that was a good way to get my finger broken. I replied that assaulting a minor (I was 12 at the time) was a good way to go to prison, that I had his license plate number and a large group of witnesses about me.

One day while riding my motorcycle up in the hills, a came up behind a group of about 15 cyclists taking up both lanes of a narrow, two lane road (lightly traveled). I beeped the horn on the bike twice, both quick beeps just to let them know I was behind 'em and wanted to pass. The did finally move over after I hung behind them for about 100 yards, but I got lots of foul names hurled my way and raised middle fingers as I passed.

When I drive, I respect the cyclists, move left when I pass and drop my speed if its wet to minimize the spash as much as possible. When I ride my bicycle, I take bike paths when I can, slow down and call out when passing pedestrians, and keep left when on surface roads that are also used by automobiles. I obey traffic laws, and such, yet still get shouted at, occasionly have had stuff hurled at me, and the like. Last year, I started wearing one of my GOA t-shirts with images of firearms on it, and that sort of stuff has dropped off a lot.

Both groups need to share the road and respect the others use of it. Of course, that kind of respect of others seems to be diminishing in our culture.

 

[NC Shooter]

Sindawe,

Good response. I have seen a much higher percentage of bicylists acting like jerks than car drivers and the total number of drivers that are jerks outnumber bicyclists. In my area many bicyclists (especially the organized clubs) flaunt the fact that they have the right to ride on the roads. One local club schedules it's rides at 4:30 on weekdays on busy, two lane crowded country roads to (this comes from their handouts) "piss of the 9 to 5ers trying to get home". Then proceed to block the entire lane of traffic going out of town.

This in turn angers many motorists who can be jerks anyway into acting more like jerks. It turns into an endless downward spiral.

As a result, I have quit riding my bike as I don't want to be guilty by association. I will occassionally take it out and ride around the neighborhood, but not on the streets.

So, IMHO, both sides need to clean up their acts. The car drivers need to give respect to the bicyclists as they are allowed to use the roads and the bicyclists need to work to earn that respect by being courteous.

Just my $.02

 

[pythonguy]

The point is, you don't shoot people for being a jerk, or because you think they might run you over, or any other reason other then your life TRULY is in imminent danger, not merely perceived to be. And if you think otherwise you will be arrested, prosecuted, and rot in jail being the wife of "Big Roy" so choose wisely weedhopper, the ass you save may be your own, literally.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

In response to Mr. Python's comment, I wonder if there are any cops on bikes on the forum. Is it OK for a cop to shoot a motorist trying to run them down?

All seriousness aside.

Cyclists don't randomly flip off truck drivers. The driver has to do something to deserve it. In baseball I think they call it "Brush Back".

Personally, I don't flip them off, even when they need it. I always smile and wave hoping that they will think I misunderstood their maniac activity and thought they were a friend. I hope that doesn't further enrage them so that they take it out on the next cyclist they see.

Of course, I usually smile and wave at all vehicles I see, either coming or going. Down here in the woods, it's customary.

Let me make you bicycler hating drivers aware though. You brush me back, I will smile and wave. You turn around and I will head to the ditch and dismount.

You keep coming and you will be looking into the bore of my big .44 and when your tire goes into the ditch to run over my bike with me behind it, I will be firing away as I leap to the side.

I wish there were some cops on bikes to chime in. Cops can shoot motorists.

The cyclist in question here should not have fired on the truck if he could have escaped. The truck driver should not have gone back. The jury should have had at least a few cyclists on it.

Maybe the cyclist will become some big guy's wife, but he did a service to many of us. Now, maybe the next time some lowbrow vehicle driver who wishes to exert his manlyness behind the wheel by rousting a cyclist, he will remember (in the area where this story was covered by the managed media) that there just might be a crazy gun toter on that saddle.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Mr. Spiff,

I think you may not have thought your comment through and are sounding like a bigot only because you might not live in an area where the roads are shared by cyclists, farm implements, motor vehicles, and finally the Amish. Yes, we share the roads with horse drawn vehicles.

We don't have dog sleds or snowmobiles.

Horse drawn vehicles and farm implements, as you must be aware but have forgotten, were using the roads long before the motor vehicle was invented. I think the bicycle came next. Finally the motor vehicle.

 

[coylh]

Yeah what's the big deal? I thought standard practice was 120 rounds into a vehicle moving towards you...

 

[WilderBill]

I have ridden thousands of miles.
I have lost several cycling friends to cars.
I have had mirrors pass within inches of my head as I rode.
I have had my rear wheel run over during a hard (read evasive) right turn, with me still on the bike!

While I can't speak for all cyclists, I expect most do not go out of their way to piss off motorists that can squish them like a bug.

All in all, I think the large bore handguns should be standard cycling equipment, just like a helmet.
Them pickups get too close, too often here in Texas. Most of the time deliberatly, sometimes with fatal results.

Armed or not, I doubt the cyclist flipped off the driver for no reason.
Just my humble opinion, based on years of riding and more years of driving.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I've driven a couple of million miles on 4 (or more) wheels, and I've ridden a lot of miles on 2 wheels (petrol powered and muscle powered alike). I watch out for bicyclists. But ... I live outside a city that is host to three universities, a couple of colleges and a community college. Believe me when I say that I have zero respect for bicyclists, because at least around here they are ALL idiots who royally deserve being removed from the gene pool. They seem to uniformly believe that traffic laws (little things like stop signs, traffic lights, signaling for turns ... that sort of bother) don't apply to them.

On the other hand, the professionals ... the courier riders in cities like NYC ... know what they're doing and generally don't create problems.

 

[Blue Jays]

Hi All-

Here is a twist on the story...what if the bicyclist gave the "thumbs down" sign as his expression of displeasure and the guy in the pickup truck then turned back to continue the conversation? That would make for some interesting discussion on a thread. As an enthusiastic bicyclist, motorcyclist, and motorist I've seen it all...

The fact-of-the-matter is that the guy in the truck has weight, horsepower, steel protection, and much greater potential for foot-lbs. of energy to be transferred. It is incumbent upon him to be the bigger man and drive away from an exposed person making rude gestures at the side of the road.

Needless to say, if one opts to carry a sidearm, their outward personality should be virtually "invisible" to the public. If the guy in the pick-up truck was driving like a jerk, the bicyclist should have just smiled and remembered the license plate number for the police. Flipping the bird and then pulling a gun against the semi-expected response is unprofessional.

~ Blue Jays ~

 

[pete f]

I have seen both sides of this issue and have to say twelve years is a lot of what is likely a moment of terror response.

I have seen "times trial" riders go thru redlights with their heads down and not even slowing, saw one get sent to the grand tour in the Sky doing that too. While riding bikes with my kids I have been intentionally run off the road by morons in cars and nearly killed by a SUV driving soccermom who I knew who claimed she never saw me nor heard the sound of my bike going under her tires as i dove off the bike at the last second. Would I have been legit for shooting her? Had she killed me it would have been manslaughter 2 or at least a negligent Homicide. I have also been caught behind a large group of cyclists trying to climb a hill on a sunday morning on a group ride who took up both lanes for a good 3/4 of a mile and after a couple of mild horn toots, when I passed I was hit with more than one water bottle thrown at my car.

However, If a driver made a manacing move toward the cyclist and he had reason to fear for his life does that not meet the need of an escalation of threat to where a shoot would be justified?


Unless there were eye witnesses to this, I think mr Bicyclist needed a better attorney

 

[yy]

I see posts here that say more motorists are rude and posts that say more cyclists are rude.

Could it be that we just notice and remember rude people more and thus skew the statistics?

 

[patentmike]

Needless to say, if one opts to carry a sidearm, their outward personality should be virtually "invisible" to the public.

Absolutely right.

Keep your fingers on the handle bars. I used to smile and wave, but that could easily be interpreted as being a wise ass. (I know, that's how I intended it). Now I almost always ride at first light when there's no traffic. Lot's of drivers on the road are morons, so if you have to be in the wrong place, pick the right time.

One thing for sure, if you shoot in self-defense under any circumstances, they will take a hard look at whether to file the most serious charges possible. On the other hand, rarely does a motorist who attempts to run over a cyclist face more than "reckless driving".

Run into a pack of cyclists because they are probably from the city and they are "blocking" "your" country road on a Saturday morning - reckless driving.

Whack a cyclist in the back of the head with your mirror and drive off despite the pleas of your busload of school kids - reckless driving.

Bike for exercise. If you want justice too, better drive a Hummer to the gym.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

So, I googled this story just to see if there was anything else.

WooHoo

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04040/270970.stm

Truck driver is shot in face-off with cyclist

Monday, February 09, 2004
By Jim McKinnon, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

A Monroeville bicyclist has been jailed on charges that he tried to kill a pickup truck driver during a road rage incident Saturday afternoon near the entrance to Monroeville Park.

The driver, William J. Nicoletti, was shot once in the arm in the confrontation.

No injuries were reported to the bike rider, Robert T. Urick.

Nicoletti, 51, told Monroeville police that he was driving along Tillbrook Road when Urick, 41, who was riding the bicycle, made an obscene gesture as the truck passed him.

Urick later told police that he reacted that way because Nicoletti had told him to get off the road.

Nicoletti said that he turned his truck around and drove toward Urick, who pulled a pistol, pointed it at him and stated that Nicoletti had "five seconds to get out [of the truck] or he would shoot," according to an affidavit that supports Urick's arrest.

Nicoletti said that Urick then reached inside the truck and shot him in the arm.

As Urick rode away, Nicoletti said that he pursued him in the truck, ramming the bicycle from behind, forcing it off the road.

The two men then fought briefly until Urick fled.

Nicoletti was treated at Mercy Hospital for a bullet wound of the arm.

Under questioning at county police headquarters, Urick denied having possessed or fired a weapon. He admitted that he had fought with Nicoletti, ending the fight only after Nicoletti submitted, the affidavit said.

Urick was arraigned on charges of attempted homicide, aggravated assault and two weapons violations.

He was being held last night in the Allegheny County Jail on $100,000 bond, pending a preliminary hearing Feb. 17 at 1 p.m. before District Justice Walter Luniewski in Monroeville.

(My emboldiment)

Assuming that this story is truth and not poetry.........What Mr. Patentmike said......Both of these guys should be in the slammer.

Both of them.

 

[Binkster]

Serious Cyclist?

We all know that both guys were partially in the wrong. It never should have happened if either of them has some sense and just went on their own way. The fact is that some people are jerks whether they are on a bike or behind a wheel. Why should this situation be any different. Isn't that why we carry and have chosen to protect ourselves? I know that is why I carry. Even while riding, I carry a PA3T in my jersey pocket at all times. A skippy looking guy in spandex and on a bike that cost as much as many cars can make me a target for attention. I try to remember that the vast majority of riders and drivers are nice and courtious.

That being said, I would like to know if the rider was a serious cyclist or if he was riding only because he lost his driving priledges after a DUI or some similar bad life choice. Also, did the guy have a carry permit? Did the rider have previous incidents of rage or prior arrests. There is a lot of information missing from the newspaper article. It is really hard to judge without actually being on the jurry and knowing the entire story.

Lastly, I am sure that regardless of the situation, it is very hard to bite your tongue when some yells asshol* at you or flips you the bird. It is very hard not to repond. Especially, if you know that you have not done anything wrong to have provoked it. I try to laugh it off, but it is not always easy. Incidents like this are a reality check for me.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Mr. Binkster said

I would like to know if the rider was a serious cyclist or if he was riding only because he lost his driving priledges after a DUI or some similar bad life choice.

I further read somewhere (google is good) that the guy's defense lawyer said the shooter should get some slack because he hadn't been convicted of a Violent crime since 1981.

How would the pick up driver know that?

The injustice here is that the driver didn't get locked up too.

 

[WilderBill]

Mike, I see you mentioned the 'bus mirror' incident.
Did you know the rider in that?
I did.
At the time of his death, he held the 24 hour record. Something like 414 miles!
He rode something on the order of 30,000 miles a year.
He knew exactly what he was doing on a bike. The trouble was, he was trusting.
If he had been a little less trusting, he might be alive today.

 

[Wayne D]

A lot of this just doesn't make good sense.

Nicoletti said that he turned his truck around and drove toward Urick, who pulled a pistol, pointed it at him and stated that Nicoletti had "five seconds to get out [of the truck] or he would shoot," according to an affidavit that supports Urick's arrest.

Nicoletti said that Urick then reached inside the truck and shot him in the arm.

Why would he have to reach inside the truck to shoot him?

As Urick rode away, Nicoletti said that he pursued him in the truck, ramming the bicycle from behind, forcing it off the road.

Would you pursue someone that had just shot you? Especially if you were unarmed?

The two men then fought briefly until Urick fled.

Would you get out to fight an armed man? Why didn't Urick shoot him again?

Nicoletti was treated at Mercy Hospital for a bullet wound of the arm.
Under questioning at county police headquarters, Urick denied having possessed or fired a weapon. He admitted that he had fought with Nicoletti, ending the fight only after Nicoletti submitted, the affidavit said.

This whole story stinks. I agree with the earlier contention that they are both idiots.

 

[Randy in Arizona]

Pythonguy - You guys are watching too many Stephen King Movies Like the one with the possesed truck that tries to run everyone over.

IIRC the movie was Christine and it was a car. {1958 Plymouth Fury}

NC Shooter - One local club schedules it's rides at 4:30 on weekdays on busy, two lane crowded country roads to (this comes from their handouts) "piss of the 9 to 5ers trying to get home". Then proceed to block the entire lane of traffic going out of town.

Catch them with the wind blowing in the right direction and open up a pressurized oil feed into the exhaust manifold. {Honest Officer, it just smokes real bad when it is cold!} Or just turn Christine loose on them!

 

[dev_null]

As a longtime motorcyclist, I can tell you that BBs work wonders on tailgaters. Just flip one over your shoulder and Voila! -- breathing room.

 

[Art Eatman]

Based on the news articles, we have a tale of two idiots.

I used to carry a bike in my van, to be able to run errands at noon-hour without losing my parking place. I discovered that invisibility is Not Fun.

I commuted via motorcycle for three days. I discovered that invisibility is Not Fun.

I drove sports cars for many, many. I discovered that a Lotus Elan is Almost Invisible. That is Not Fun. One of the reasons I loved my Chev-Healey is that I could goose the gas pedal and be long gone before some idiot in a Big Fat Buick side-swiped me.

There are a lot of really dumb Lead Sled drivers out there.

BUT: There are motorcycle and bicycle riders who will get into a four-wheeler's blind spot and then wonder why Bad Things happen. When the camper shell is on my pickup, I feel like I need a sign like those on semis: "If you can't see me in my mirrors, I can't see you."

, Art

 

[jacketch]

I have driven over 1,000,000 miles and ridden a bike over 100,000 miles.

I have never been assaulted when driving.

I have been assaulted 4 times when riding a bicycle, each time because some jerk thought I was an easy target since I was riding alone.

I had a friend, a small Englishman, who was riding along when a car swerved at him, almost forcing him off the road (a fairly common incident for cyclists). He flipped the driver the bird. The driver continued down the road about a quarter mile and stopped, waiting for the cyclist. When my friend rode by, the driver lunged out and knocked my buddy off his bike and then proceeded to kick and hit him until he was unconscious. The driver then got in his car and drove away. My friend spent 7 days in the hospital with a broken jaw, fractured skull, broken eye socket, broken bones in his foot and torn ligaments in his shoulder and hand. The driver later pled to a charge of simple assault and received time served (3 days) and a small fine.

I don't know all the details on the shooting incident but wouldn't be surprised if the cyclist had feared for his life. Either way, both parties seem to have suffered from a case of the stupids.