Bicyclist tries to open my van door..

[HexHead]

He may have also been sizing you up with his first two encounters to see if you were an easy mark for a robbery or carjacking. You handled the situation appropriately, Willie.

 

[skoro]

However, for reasons pointed out by lemaymiami and for many other reasons, attempts toward deescalation are always preferred.

Clearly.

Sounds like Willie kept trying to deescalate while the bike guy kept on escalating and getting ever more aggressive.

 

[benEzra]

Quote:
"hey man, the law says I have the right to be able to bike past you without needing to go around you"

At this point I would have told the guy to go F himself.

If the pavement margin was lined as a bike lane, then the cyclist was right. To the OP, was it a bike lane? I'm not clear on this yet.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Sounds like Daddy needs to get Daughter out of condition white.

Just sayin'

-CD

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^

Good luck. Art School student and all.... <sigh>... even though she's a legacy life member of the NRA, and shoots fairly well. She's the typical generation of "head down while tapping on phone" college kid.


To the OP, was it a bike lane?

Almost irrelevent, but no. It was just the shoulder and there was enough space there to pass on the right with ease (I mean, the guy was *sitting there on his bike arguing with me*, so he could have just passed had he a mind to have done so...), and there was plenty of empty lane on the other side as well, with good sight distance. The guy was riding in the road to begin with, not on the shoulder, as I had passed him a quarter mile back as we returned to the hotel for Daughter to retrieve her purse from the room of the motel.


Willie

.

 

[travisd]

Even if it was a bike lane and the guy had no way to get around him for some reason, there was no reason to continue harassing willie after he moved his car to let him pass. The guy should have done like any normal person would, inform willie that he needs to move and continued on his way after he did. The fact that he didn't go around in the first place, and then tried to get into his car to do whatever says that he was just looking to cause trouble. Whether or not he was drunk or high, he was the one causing unnecessary problems and IMO was at fault for the whole situation.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Good read Willy.

 

[gamestalker]

Not having been there leaves much to the imagination. But from personal experience, I tend to side with the OP, in that he was in his vehicle, he made an attempt to move out of the biker's way, and then the moron became the intruder when he tried to enter his vehicle / home.

The OP never brandished, never stated he was armed, and never threatened the intruder with lethal force. The OP did do his part in trying to deescalate the situation by moving his vehicle out of the way once.

Whether he could have done anything else to further deescalate things, probably. He mat have been able to drive up to the motel, thus removing himself, and his daughter completely out of the situation. This would have gone a long way in the eye's of LE had things progressed to code red. Then if the biker were to further pursue him, and continue to attempt to incite or engage the OP, he would have likely been further justified in brandishing or use.

Considering he never brandished it, I think putting his hand on the weapon in readiness was appropriate IMO. Of course, brandishing is always the last resort, but it shouldn't have to wait until the perpetrator goes hands on, therefore further diminishing one's ability to defend their self.

Every situation I've ever been in plays through my mind following such incidents. What could I have done differently or better, was I legal in my actions, could LE have viewed it as avoidable, and did I do everything possible to avert it? It's good to consult with others following such events, as we learn and grow in our ability to evaluate such events.

Thank God no one got hurt or died!

GS

 

[ElToro]

I'd consider any uninvited attempted entry into my home or car a serious threat to my safety. You warned him several times sternly.

 

[RustyShackelford]

New event in New Mexico....

Here's a head scratcher....
I saw a new media item today that described how a well known artist pulled his SUV into a home owner's driveway to clean up some stains from his small dog.
Reportedly, the property owner returned, started to wig out, blocked the SUV driver in & contacted 911.
The PD rolled up & conducted what seems like a felony traffic stop(lights, rifles, shouting commands, etc).
The article didn't say if the artist/SUV driver was charged but the whole incident seems like a mishap that escalated into a bad situation.

Arguments can be made for both parties but I just wanted to share this recent event with other members. As gun owners/CCW license holders, it's important to be mature & use good judgement.
It sounds like both parties could have acted like grown adults & let it go w/o 911 or law enforcement.

Rusty

 

[Kleanbore]

The bad situation could get worse.

It is permissible to prohibit persons from entering private property uninvited, but trying to prevent them from leaving can get one into a great deal of trouble in most jurisdictions.

 

[short barrel]

You did what I would have done, Willy, and that was to be ready.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Update....

NPR.org reports the well known artist was detained by LE but released with no formal charges.
Id agree too that detaining or preventing someone's movement is tricky.
Rusty

 

[Bezoar]

people...

no two jurisdictions ahve the same identical traffic laws.

however all agree that trying to open a vehicle door, when the vehicle is occupied is "car jacking". an unocupied vehicle would be "grand theft auto"

 

[200Apples]

Once Again,

.

But you can never be sure.... and therein lays the ambiguity. Do you wait until it's too late (error), do you jump the gun (error) or do you rationally look at things, use your tools, and always have one more tool in the works than the one you are using at the moment?


These scenarios are rarely as simple as a guy shoving a gun into your face and saying "give me your wallet". They evolve slowly at times, and we often need to be able to reliably make decisions under conditions of uncertainty. Walking one line while preparing to jump to another is an art form. Being able to go from Yellow to Orange, and then NOT and I mean NOT NOT NOT jumping to Red without really needing to requires discipline. I've seen way too many cases of "Color Code Inertia" happening, where someone jumps straight from White or Yellow to Red without pausing at Orange, without any reason to be in Red. Witness every cop emptying his magazine at some poor guy for pulling out his wallet. Adrenelin and switching to the "Monkey Brain" where winning a "Dominance Display" becomes more important to the narrowing perception of that primitive thought process than simply leaving unharmed is something to be aware of. Don't fall into the trap. The posters who thought that the next step that I might have contemplated if he had entered would be to shoot rather than to bail out of the other side of the van are showing their own Monkey-Brain thought process response, not mine. It's interesting to observe. It's they who need more training, not me.

Looking forward to your return to "the searing sands of the Mojave".

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^ Here in the desert now for the next month and a half or so, and it's searing...


Willie

 

[MachIVshooter]

"hey man, the law says I have the right to be able to bike past you without needing to go around you"

At this point I would have told the guy to go F himself.

Same here. Willie is a lot more patient and accommodating than this thirty-something who has just plain had it with <redacted> bicyclists impeding traffic and breaking every single rule of the road as though it was a personal goal of theirs. I often find myself wishing I had a chipped diesel with a manual transmission that I could lug like crazy so as to pass them billowing a suffocating soot.

Bicyclists here are supposed to use the road and follow the same rules as motor vehicles. As it were, they seem to believe by and large that the rules don't apply to them, and are in fact responsible for a tremendous number of MVAs on account of 2+ ton vehicles trying to avoid the errant pedalers.

 

[mgkdrgn]

If he had tried to open my door I would have helped him ... .right into his teeth.