Bad guy at my door. Not hypothetical.

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WestKentucky

WestKentucky

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Western Kentucky
Tonight at sunset I was outside lighting my grill and I heard one of my neighbors yelling. Not unusual as he and his wife are having issues, so I dismissed it which was a big mistake. A couple minutes later my army neighbor sent me 2 texts back to back. First said "locknload" second said "lock front door NOW". So I don't hesitate. To hell with the grill. As I run through my back door and grab my m9 from the table I head to the door. M9 just reassembled from cleaning, empty gun mag on table. I slam the mag home and as I rack the slide I see the bad guy walking up to my door. He is obviously out of place as western Kentucky has very few people of Indian (continent not Native American) descent and none of them wear bright purple sashes around their necks. He sees me chambering but he's already committed. Through the door I ask what he is doing on my porch and he responded in a very fidgety manner he was looking for Michael applegate. I know my neighbors and applegate ain't any of them. I say he's not here or anywhere on this street and you need to move along. He does...presumably because he saw me armed and at this point I'm cocked and locked safety off gun at my side. He heads next door and I tell him again applegate doesn't live on this street. At this point he looks up the street and gets in his van and leaves but 3 city cops block the road. Apparently he saw them turn in. They search the driver, my guy, and the van, cuff my guy and send the van on its way.

So, my mistake was ignoring my neighbor as the guy asked him for applegate and then for gas money to help find applegate...and got pushy when he was told no. My army neighbor answered the door with his Rottweiler and saw what was up, delayed the guy and texted me and the other neighbors while he was "seeing if he had cash". That rott stood guard on the front door guaranteed. I'm not sure what the pd found but they did arrest and it was on the radio as "an arrest following an altercation". I got lucky I guess, but I'm glad I have good neighbors who look out for each other.
 
Could also have been an unarmed Indian who got lost, not familiar with language and culture.... From your description doesn't sound like your typical bad guy. Especially in broad daylight asking for a name...
 
I'm glad you're okay, that no one was hurt, and that the guy is in custody. Good lessons learned, and no doubt others here will have better input on the after action analysis. I've moved this to Strategies, Tactics, and Training where it's more appropriate.
 
Could have simply been lost, legitimately looking for someone. I know the folks that live around me, by face if not by name, so its pretty easy to stand out. This could just be a case where racial profiling went wrong. He dresses differently and has a different skin color, doesn't mean he was a bad guy. The verbal altercation from your neighbor found have been an over reaction (especially if yelling is enough of a usual occurrence that you didn't think twice about it). I wouldn't have done much differently, however, except maybe kept my pistol out of sight. Based on the details, I am going to play devils advocate and give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but I also can't find any real fault on your part, either.
 
I have to agree with the OP costumes are everywhere and are used to throw off a persons guard. BUT why was your front door not locked.

I had to get after my parents for an incident at their house just two days ago. An unfamiliar van had pulled into the driveway and driven past down to the vacant house below them and had driven up next to their line of cars where my car trailer is. They went to the bathroom to look and see what was going on as there is a small window that they can see out into the drive and they can not bee seen but they did not have the phone with them nor one of their guns. One of them then turned on the front porch light and the vehicle then tore out of the driveway spraying gravel and sliding sideways out over the ditch culvert out into the road.
 
Front door standing open since friends were coming over for dinner. Only a glass storm door between us. He saw me with the gun at the same time I saw him approaching the door. It could easily have been a lost guy that looked out of place except for everyone told him applegate doesn't live on this street and he begged everyone for money. Still not sure of why he was actually arrested or what the cops found. Nothing on local news today so it must not be a big deal.
 
Only thing I would have done different would not have let him see the m9. Also shows the importance of always carrying a firearm with you. Even if he was really looking for Michael Applegate ,you did not know the person he was looking for.
 
everyone told him applegate doesn't live on this street and he begged everyone for money
Click to expand...

Doesn't this clarify to everyone that the Applegate line was total BS ? The benefit of the doubt goes out the window when the first lie it told.

And an arrest was made, so any second guessing that this poor dude was lost and confused is moot, right ?

And the stopping at a house with a totally bogus question if a door is answered is a common technique for dirtballs to get close enough to catalog your house, yard and garage regarding being an easy target for a later visit.

Sorry, but a stranger at my door these days does not get the benefit of the doubt, immediately.
 
sorry... I've been lost in neighborhoods before and asked folks where people live and they didn't know the name. Granted - I speak English and am VERY polite, white male, early 30s in a nice car.... so profiling wise they had probably nothing to fear.

still think the dude just got lost. I work with lots of indians in the IT sector and many just came here. despite India being an english speaking country... their language skills are often not that great and they CAN sound aggressive when they are irritated or try to make a point.

so labeling this as a "bad guy" incident is a little over the top :rolleyes: you did nothing wrong but I'm glad you did not overreact.

we should not forget the case where a Japanese exchange student was fatally shot in Texas for coming up to the wrong house and not being familiar with the language kept approaching the owner....
 
I'm in the over reaction on your part camp on this one. No hostility on his part towards you, but you have a gun he sees.

He calls the cops, says you pointed a gun at him (I know you didn't, but him seeing a gun might confuse him into thinking it was), and you're talking to the cops about a reckless endangerment charge.

I also have some experience with Indians, and some can be very persistent to the point of being annoying. They also have different ideas as to personal space than you probably do (different culture), they'll come right up and be all in your face way closer than we're used to.

Still, I don't see the provocation for the gun.
 
You can never over react. You can point gun at anyone that you have fear of your life or property from. Given you got a text message from a neighbor, you had no idea what was wrong, but something was wrong given his text. You did not over react.

Since he saw the weapon, he should have just turned around and left. I would have. The fact he didn't, means something was off...odd if you will.

Hope you didn't ruin your BBQ.

Stay Vigilant!
 
maybe the neighbor should not go on DEFCON 1 and txt his neighbor "locknload" AND "lock front door NOW". that made it sound like a armed serial killer is roaming the neighborhood and the neighbor JUST go away with his life and is trying to save you..... when in fact a guy asked your neighbor about a person living in the area and asked for money....

sometimes a tad LESS paranoia helps (talking about your neighbor, not you).

especially a text "locknload" could be very interesting in a trial when someone unarmed gets accidentally gunned down
 
Posted by BrokenSailor: You can never over react. You can point gun at anyone that you have fear of your life or property from. Given you got a text message from a neighbor, you had no idea what was wrong, but something was wrong given his text. You did not over react.
Click to expand...
I doubt that a non-specific text message from a neighbor and one's conclusion that "something was wrong" would suffice as reason to believe that the presentation of a firearm had been lawfully justified in any US jurisdiction.
 
You can never over react. You can point gun at anyone that you have fear of your life or property from. Given you got a text message from a neighbor, you had no idea what was wrong, but something was wrong given his text. You did not over react.

I have to disagree as well. If a "reasonable person" standard of behavior is not codified in most jurisdictions, then the expectation of reasonable behavior in self defense is likely embodied in case law. It may also be termed "reasonable fear" in some places. And there is a legally stated expectation of at least a basic level of courage in some state law also (there is in NC - it refers to 'a person of ordinary firmness').
 
What about the begging everybody for money part of this ? Does that not raise a bit if suspicion ?

And was an arrest not made ?
 
texasgun said:
we should not forget the case where a Japanese exchange student was fatally shot in Texas for coming up to the wrong house and not being familiar with the language kept approaching the owner....
Click to expand...

Texae? It was in Baton Rouge. Last time I checked, Baton Rouge was still the capital of Louisiana. ;)
 
hahaha.... yeah... whatever ;)

i just used that as an example of an unnecessary shooting and unfortunate event
 
there's a big difference between naive TRUST and PARANOIA when it comes to strangers... :uhoh:
 
The guy may have really been lost. He may have been just trying to scam up some money. No telling. It doesn't sound like he was really a threat though.

I do know though sometimes if people are up to something they pretend to be looking for someone or ask directions etc. to try to prolong contact until they can do what they came for. I don't think I'd have let him see the gun but you did no harm.
 
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