Big 5 Mossberg- too cheap?

[Mariner]

Big 5 has thier mossberg 12 gauge pump shotgun with the 18 inch barrel for sale right now ($230). I handled it today and it felt pretty cheap. My only frame of refrence is the Remmington 870s that my department uses. Would I be better off saving for something nicer, or is this one fine for my use (home defense)? what do you think? Buying something nicer that is used for about the same price isnt really an option for me.

thanks, Ryan

 

[JShirley]

Welcome to THR!

If you already use an 870 at work, you would be well-advised to just look for a used 870. As Dave would say, an 870 will outlast a Mossberg 500, and the Mossberg will outlast you.

I personally am partial to Mossbergs, because of the proper safety placement. YMMV

John

 

[Mariner]

I dont think I'd be able to find a used 870 around here, there is only one store that i know of in my area that sells used guns.

I guess my main concern is over the reliability of the mossberg. Any links for accesories for this thing? (pistol grips, sling, combat light, etc...)


thanks, Ryan

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

1. PG's on a mossberg are worse than worthless due to the safety location.


2. surefire makes lights for mossbergs.

3. slings can be had lots of places, I prefer the GI nylon m-16 sling for mine.


Mine's been pretty boringly reliable.

 

[ksnecktieman]

For that price my walmart had a parkerized? dull finish, anyway 870 on the rack a couple months back. If you are using an 870 at work, you should stay with it for home use. The safety is different, and you will do what you train to do. Trigger finger safety versus tang safety for your thumb is a big change. Both are fine guns, but when you need it you do not want to have to think, is this the safety with my thumb one? Or the safety with my finger?
Handle both and think about it, and good luck with your choice.

 

[Mariner]

thanks for pointing out the PG/safety problem.

I'm not too worried about the safety being in a different location, since our work guns are kept "hot" with an empty chamber - safety does not play a part in the training. unless somebody accidentally puts it on safe (d'oh!).

looks like I might be buying a mossberg.


Edit: my walmart doesn't sell firearms anymore (California!)

 

[bamf]

What part of Northern California you from?

You can rather easily get used 870's from gunshows in the sub $200 range. Last gun show I went to in Sacramento, had a near perfect Wingmaster for $190, beautiful stock...still kicking myself for not picking one up.

BTW, usually those mossbergs go on sale for around $199, Big 5 I believe also sells 870's as well in the mid 200's.

 

[HSMITH]

If it is a Mossberg 500 skip it and get a good gun like the 590, 835 or the 870.

The 500 is not a bad gun but it is not a good one either. I have broken several 500's personally and a couple without firing a shot just to prove a point. The 500 is a suitable learners gun or a bird gun but I would not stake my life on one.

I have seen a couple 870 failures too but they are far less common and I have seen at least 3-to-1 870's to all other pump guns in use.

I have not seen a 590, 835 or BPS failure even though I have been around them a lot, I have even tried to break them personally and not been able to. I gave those 590's holy heck too after the 500 dissapointment, that 590 is a SERIOUS shotgun. I believe the 835 to be every bit as solid. The 870 in all truthfullness is probably a bit less gun than the 590 or the 835 but it IS the standard by which all else is judged.

I only own one pump gun and it is an 870, but I would feel just as good about a 590 or an 835 becuase I have "been there and done that" with them.

EDIT: to add that my personal experience covers over 100 pump guns that I was directly responsible for or owned outright. I am not guessing here....

 

[Quickloader]

HSMITH

I have broken several 500's personally and a couple without firing a shot just to prove a point.

how did you break these guns, what failed?

For functionality I'm satisfied with my Mossberg 500A, I couldn't stand the finish of some internal parts and the action bars which were quite rough at the edges and tended to cut ever so slightly at the raceways of the aluminum receiver, thus I smoothed the whole mechanism out, works smooth and reliable for about 3'000 rounds now, lots of heavy stuff through it without a glitch. The rattling forend, though adding to the "cheap" impression, in fact helps a great deal with cycling reliability.

Mariner

I don't think you would be disappointed with the reliability of the Mossberg, from my own experience and from the records I fully trust it, regarding esthetics I would go with the 870 rather.

Quickloader

 

[Dave McCracken]

As both a long time 870 user and a long time firearms instructor, let me urge you to get an 870.

Ordinarily, I see little difference in actual usage between the 500 and 870. They both go bang on command and only then. Either lasts longer than us, and the fact that the 870 will outlast anything this side of Stonehenge is immaterial.

BUT...

In dire emergencies we do what we're trained to do. As a LEO, you've received a fair amount of training on the 870, and having to adjust to another make in a short time frame, high risk crisis is an obstacle we do not need and can easily avoid.

Also, using a HD 870 for other things like hunting, clay games and "Practical" shooting makes you much more effective with the duty arm as well as better able to defend you and your family. Commonality of controls...

HTH....

 

[HSMITH]

Quickloader, the typical failure of the 500's was the pin that pins the locking lug into the bolt. I was able to shear that pin off and when it breaks it turns the gun into a very awkward club or possibly a misshapen paddle. I broke the lugs off the action bar on one also. The breakage was on guns that I did not own or have to pay for under abusive circumstances, but it pays to know when your equipment will let you down if possible.

The 500 is a light duty gun. It is an affordable shotgun that will do what you need done 99% of the time. It is not in the league of the 590, 835 and the 870.

 

[Quickloader]

HSMITH

that's something I noticed in my 500, the locking lug pin is inserted in quite a shoddy fashion into the lug, barely having metal left at the underside of the drill hole it sits in, the paper-thin ridge left is heavily bulged from pressing in the pin.

Thanks for the tip!

As I understand you, the 590 and 835 are of a different construction then?
I thought the 590 shares the same or comparable innards with the 500, seems not to be the case then?

Quickloader

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

590s have the same innards. I don't think the duribility issues hsmith brought up are actual issues, since what he did was the equivalent of letting the slide slam home on an empty chamber in a 1911 50 times in quick succession.

 

[HSMITH]

The 590's I had were different, the pin in the bolt for the locking lug was larger in diameter and was long enough to go from side to side on the bolt. You cannot interchange bolts from a 500 and a 590, I tried and it did not work. The 590 is the same general design as the 500. The 835 is a completely different shotgun, and the best shotgun Mossberg makes.

It does not hurt a 1911 in any way, shape or form to slam the slide home on an empty chamber when it is built correctly. If the timing is off or the fire control set geometry is off it will harm them, but not a properly set up gun. Call your favorite 1911 guru and ask the question if you don't believe me.

 

[dav]

I do not want to appear to be contradicting HSMITH. I am sure he has experienced exactly what he says he has.

On the other hand, it is the first time I have heard of multiple 500 failures. In my shotgun training, my Mossberg 500 was the only shotgun in the class (3 days of 100+ in the desert) to have zero malfunctions.

Two 870's malfed, one other 500 malfed (S&B ammo left paint residue in the chamber and eventually led to shell sticking in chamber), all the autos had FTF or FTE failures, or double feeds.

I think HSMITH's 99% number is quite low. I think 99.999999 (as far as you wish to carry the 9s) percent of Mossberg 500s will work, every time.

Mine does.

On the other hand, that is not the point of this thread. I recommend getting an 870 if that is what you already use. Stick with one or the other.

 

[Quickloader]

FYI, out of the thread's point

Numrich's lists old style- and new style parts for the 500, 590 resp., this may explain what HSMITH described above regarding interchangeability.


http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=0840z500

http://www.e-gunparts.com/products.asp?chrMasterModel=0840z590&MC=

Quickloader

 

[Mariner]

thanks for all of the replies.

I agree that having an 870 at home to compliment my training would be optimal, but I dont think it is mission critical in this instance. Since my training consists of "rack it and fire", just about any shotgun carried in this condition sould work just fine in a critical incident. And my training isnt too extensive in the 870 anyways (our long gun training is not very impressive).

kinda like the glock I carry at work and the kel-tec I carry in my pocket, they are carried in the same condition and I do the same action when I need to fire them (point and shoot).

I was mostly concerned about reliability, since the 500 felt like a toy in my hand compared to the 870 at work.

Ryan.

PS: I live and work in the bay area, not too many gun shows to speak of nowadays.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Mariner, with all due respect....

SEA,1970, convinced me that minimal training was egregious. MD's mismanaged and corrupt Division of Correction drove the lesson home in spades.

Maybe your brass thinks an hour or two of shotgun familiarization is enough. They're quite wrong.

I'll wager my favorite gland that the next time you or a co-officer NEEDS a level of competence past the token given, they'll be blaming the budget crisis, the TO, or the officer involved. Anyone but themselves. This will happen even before they decorate their badges in black and intone cliches about "The last full measure"....

If they won't train you to a level of competence with an issue weapon, train yourself. Get an 870, BA/UU/R until the thing feels like a body part, and take comfort in the fact that you and your buddies are more likely to make it home each and every shift as a result of that. A couple hours every other weekend shooting is both good familiarization and great stress management.

I don't have the foggiest idea of how it is now, but when I came off the range after 10 years of being "The Shotgun Trainer", the level of competence had risen by a quantum leap. It took sweat, uncompensated time, unnoticed dedication, and the fact that I never made Captain is probably a direct result. Our officers were better enough that NDs stopped happening, the scores rose even though the course (partly setup by yours truly) toughened, and the confidence factor helped morale in an agency with a very high turnover.

(Descending from pulpit)...

 

[Mariner]

I bought the Remington 870. thanks for the help guys.

Ryan