Big Bore Pistol Performance Question

[jcs271]

I live, work and play right smack dab in the middle of Grizzly (and cougar, black bear, wolf and moose) country. I ALWAYS carry a holstered pistol when I am outside my house. Anyway, I have carried a Freedom Arms .454 for a number of years loaded with LBT 325gr hardcast slugs at 1500fps. I like the gun but have never felt particularly comfortable with single actions in an emergency situation.
I carried S&W revolvers for 24yrs as a Deputy so when the new Model 500 came out it looked like the perfect gun. I carry factory Hornady 500gr at 1150fps (4" barrel). I love this revolver and for my very specific need of a close in fight stopper that can be fired double action or in a real pinch with one hand it is near perfect.
I have fired both of the above loads into a variety of mediums (but no carcasses), the .454 usually gets about 15 percent more penetration than the .500 does.
My question is at distances of 10 yards and less do you think that the 500gr .50cal bullet (slower but bigger) would strike with more "energy" or "stopping power" than the 325gr .454 bullet.

I know this is purely hipothetical and that a well placed shot from either one would be devastating to the recipient but just curious what your thoughts are.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

The difference in "punch" depth comes from the slug design. As soon as that .500 hornady slug starts expanding, it starts slowing down. Hence less penetration. You're talking a diameter diference of .048 is all.

If it were me, I would take the extra depth over the extra size any day of the week.

 

[jcs271]

Yes, I had considered that. Now that I have built up a decent supply of brass I am thinking of loading up some 400-425 gr hardcasts and try to bump the speed up to maybe 1300. That would get me the best of both worlds and should produce a devastating hit along with some EXTREME penetration.

Just might be perfect!

 

[Bullet]

Quote - "My question is at distances of 10 yards and less do you think that the 500gr .50cal bullet (slower but bigger) would strike with more "energy" or "stopping power" than the 325gr .454 bullet."

I think the .50 would have more energy. I believe you take bullet weight X FPS divided by 1000.

.454 - 325gr bullet X 1500fps = 487500 divided by 1000 = 487.5

.50 - 500gr bullet X 1150 fps = 575000 divided by 1000 = 575.0

.50 - 425gr bullet X 1300fps = 552500 divided by 1000 = 552.5

You might check ouy this web page -

http://www.travellercentral.com/rules/ke.html

 

[unspellable]

Energy?

Bullet,

You are calculating the power factor, not the energy. For bullet mass in grains, velocity in fps, the formula is mass of bullet times the velocity squared, all divided by 450436.

For stopping a charging grizzly, I'd worry more about penetration than any difference in energy between the 454 and the 500.

 

[Bullet]

unspellable

I think your right. energy, power factor different terms, but either way the .50 (hits harder) not sure what term is right and I agree that this alone doesn't tell how much a bullet will penetrate.

 

[longspurr]

I can’t seem to find a link to articles by an African Guide named Ross Sigfried. I may have the name spelled wrong. I remember reading articles about the early 45 LC hot loads tested in Africa. Ross was not impressed with the 44 Mag as a quick killer of big game and expressed surprise how much better the warm 45 loads were than the 44 mag loads. My recollection of the article was the 300-325 grain flatnose lead slugs did a much better job on African big game than the usual 44 mag. The key seemed to be simply the largest possible diameter with a wide flat nose heavy bullet.

How does this relate to your question? I think the 500 Smith with heavy flat nose bullets will be better than the 454 just as the 45 is better than the 44 mag. From what I have read high velocity is not the key – just the flat nose & large caliber. I don’t think you are gaining that much by an extra 100 – 150 fps above factory loads for your application.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Try searching on Ross Seyfried.

 

[redneck2]

Might want to go to http/:www.sixgunner.com

There is an article on .45 LC titled "Dissolving the Myth" There is a long discussion about the .45LC with hardcast bullets driving lengthwise thru deer. Penetration in the range of 30+ inches. They talk about a .45 at about 1,000 FPS talking lots of big game. These supposedly blow thru Cape Buffalo.

The more I read, the more I think a lot of energy of expanding bullets is used up in the expansion. I'd use a good hardcast Keith style in the .500. Drives straight and true and cuts a 1/2" hole that would leak REAL well. I'd get something that I could control that would drive deep.

YMMV

 

[Marshall]

I plan on giving a first hand report on how .45 Colt does in living carcusses this fall.

 

[timothy75]

Heres something interesting

An african big game hunter called John Taylor developed a formula to calculate knockout energy because he felt conventenal ballistics were always biased heavily on velocity like the way a 9mm can hit harder in theroy than a 45acp. The formula goes caliber times weight times velocity divided by 7000. So a 44mag would go .429 times 240grs times 1180fps divided by 7000 which equals 17.3. A 454 would score a 31.8 just follow the formula to find the the stats of the 500.

 

[Marshall]

Why the 7000? Why not 6000 or 8000?

 

[Flying V]

7,000 grains/avoirdupois pound.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

Dont know what the mathmitions say but i know from experience that a bigger diameter bullet means more toward knockdown power then speed does. As John Linebaugh will tell you if you need more power then a .45 colt its time to step up the bullet diameter not the speed

 

[Brady]

I agree with redneck2

Expansion is not the key in dangerous game. It is definetly penetration. If you want outstanding penetration buy some bullets from Cast Performance and you will really see the difference. I use them for both my 454 and 500. Also,whatever you can shoot reliably whether the 454 or the 500 as they will both do the job. I prefer my Freedom Arms Premier 454 than my BFR 500,but I think the 500 has the edge.
The 454,I use 360 grainers and the 500,440 grainers. These bullets do not deform much and seem to be as hard as any I've shot.

Brady