Big disaapointment with H110 and Lil'Gun in .357

[kernal_panic]

got around to chronoing some loads i made with h110 and lil gun. the bullets weighted 162.5-163.5 grns. the loads maxed at 15.7 for h110 and 17 grns for Lil'gun. the gun was my 6 inch m27.

lilgun=1100 fps
h110= 1203 max.

i used regular pistol primers no magnum. i've gotten 1100 fps with start loads of AA#9! what in the hell happened? i should have gotten atleast 1300 fps from both loads.

 

[HSMITH]

I would start with magnum primers and a nasty hard roll crimp next time. I think however your problem lies in the chrono this time. Did you do a verification shoot with a known ammo and gun to make sure all was reasonably normal?

Federal gold medal 22 shells are a good one to use for a benchmark, not much variation and not too expensive while being readily available.

 

[Clark]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.


A) 1950's Colt Police Positive 38 Special 4" barrel, I reamed chambers to 357 mag:
1) 38sp cheap ammo from Paragon 158 gr. JHP, 830 fps
2) 18 gr. LIL'GUN 158 gr. XTP 1.59", WSPM, 1173 fps
3) 23.5 gr. LIL'GUN 158 gr. XTP 1.59", WSPM, 1155 fps


YOU WERE DISAPOINTED?
I thought I had a 357 mag load that kicked and sounded like a 44 mag, but no sticky cases.
It turns out it was all recoil, noise, and flash with lowered velocity.

 

[kernal_panic]

it wasn't the chrono.i clocked remington umc 125 grn jsps from my 2.5 inch 686 at 1300-1350. also federal 90 grn hydra-shoks from my .380 @972-1000 fps.

i'll greatly increase the crimp on the next batch.

 

[stans]

I think H-110 and W-296 are some of the very few pistol powders that do benefit from a magnum primer. These powders also require a heavy roll crimp, and don't bulge the case with that crimp. These two powders are ruputed to be best with bullets of 140 grains or more, but I have used them for 125 grain loads. All I will say is that the fireball was impressive!

 

[JohnK]

You barely got 1,150 fps with 23.5gr of Lil'Gun Clark?? I got over 1,550 fps in my 5.5" Ruger using 19.0 gr and a 158 gr LSWC 1.615" OAL, CCI 550 primers. I wouldn't expect to lose 400+ fps just from a jacketed bullet and 1.5" of barrel and would be very disapointed to see those velocities even in a 4" revolver.

 

[Clark]

Yes I was dissapointed.
Kind of like, "All hat and no cattle", that load was all kick and bang with no poop.
AND it is quite a bit of work to get that much powder to fit in the case.


More upbeat thoughts,
1) You have to give H110 credit for something, it smells good burning in a 44 mag.
2) Power Pistol is not just a big fire ball, the chrono loves it.

 

[Poodleshooter]

Crimp?
I was driven nearly insane by odd velocity variation on my .357 125gr WW296 loads. I'd get two barn burners at 1500fps (4"bbl), then one at 1100fps. I traced it down to inconsistent crimping due to changes in the trimmed length. No matter how much of those hard to ignite magnum powders you put in there, if the bullet pops loose when the primer fires and before the powder ignites, you're going to lose velocity. I now crimp the hell out of all of my magnum loads in .357,.44,whatever. I also use an FCD in an attempt to minimize the impact of the trim length.

 

[Pumpkinheaver]

You must use magnum primers and a hard roll crimp with H-110. I get 1300+ Fps with 16.0 grs H-110 and a 158 win JHP.

 

[stans]

I looked up my old data on 357 Loads and H-110. All loads were in Remington 357 magnum brass, a 158 grain JHP, either Nosler or Winchester and CCI 550 primers. These loads were safe in my guns, don't take that as any guarantee that they will be safe an any other gun, approach with caution.

Load------bullet---------velocity--------gun

16.0........Winchester...1312...........Dan Wesson 8"
16.0........Winchester....1269..........Ruger GP-100 6"
16.5........Winchester....1376..........Dan Wesson 8"
16.5........Nosler............1361..........Ruger GP-100 6"
17.0........Winchester....1406..........Dan Wesson 8"
17.0........Nosler............1377..........Dan Wesson 8"
17.5........Nosler............1424..........Dan Wesson 8" - slightly sticky extraction.

 

[kernal_panic]

i'm gonna run up 20 rounds of .357 mag with each powder and crimp the hell out of them tomorrow night. i didn't really see wild varations in velocity just really low velocity for the amount and type of powder. i'll also run up 20 rounds with aa#9 and another 20 with 2400.

 

[stans]

You might want to practice crimping with some dummy rounds, and mark the die with some hobby enamel paint. My crimp dies are marked to indicate no crimp, just makes the case straight, moderate crimp, and heavy crimp. Beyond heavy crimp gets me into the area where cases are bulged. I also trim all of my revolver brass to uniform length. I have not seen any cases grow, so one trimming is enough. Uniform case length is critical to uniform roll crimping. Ask me how I know!

 

[tex_n_cal]

A crimp alone isn't enough - turn the case mouth expander down at least .005" smaller than bullet dia. You will see improved consistency.

You should also be able to mike the case head pressure rings to determine if pressures are noticeably higher or lower with one powder or the other.

 

[kernal_panic]

update:

i fired em off today. with a VERY HEAVY crimp i got 1240 with h110. i think i am going to need magnum primers.

i was impressed by 2400. i got 1275 and consitant velocities. aa#9 was running 1250-1275 also. i used a diffrent bullet with lilgun and i upped the charge to 17.8 grains and increased the crimp. 1313 was the maximum.


all in all i think i need to switch to magnum primers. i'll buy some this week and try em out this weekend.

 

[stans]

With W-296 and H-110 I know you will need magnum primers. Back the powder charge down one grain and work up again using magnum primers.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Ditto what Stans said.

I get 1,435fps from my 4" Ruger Sec.6 with 18.0gr of Hod. Lil-gun, and a magnum primer under a Hornady 158gr XTP.
I get 1,275fps with 14.5gr. of Alliant2400 and standard primers.

But, my favorite .357mag load is a 150gr Cast HPGC (Lee) over 7.8gr of Unique with standard primer for 1,250fps. A whole lot of "bang" for very low cost. Accuracy is at least as good as the jacketed loads and recoil more moderate.

The H110/296 and Lilgun need magnum primers.
2400 is best with standard primers.