BIG must read article about Demorats and gun control in the Wash. Post...

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Democratic Hopefuls Play Down Gun Control

By Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 26, 2003; Page A01

MANCHESTER, N.H. -- Democratic presidential candidates are distancing themselves from tough gun control, reversing a decade of rhetoric and advocacy by the Democratic Party in favor of federal regulation of firearms.

Most Democratic White House hopefuls rarely highlight gun control in their campaigns, and none of the candidates who routinely poll near the top are calling for the licensing of new handgun owners, a central theme of then-Vice President Al Gore's winning primary campaign in 2000.

Howard Dean, the early frontrunner this year, proudly tells audiences the National Rifle Association endorsed him as governor of Vermont. As president, Dean said he would leave most gun laws to the states. The federal government, Dean said in an interview here, should not "inflict regulations" on states such as Montana and Vermont, where gun crime is not a big problem. New York and California "can have as much gun control as they want," but those states -- and not the federal government -- should make that determination, he said.

Rep. Richard A. Gephardt, a longtime gun control advocate, is careful to highlight his support for law-abiding gun owners. The Missouri Democrat said he is not interested in giving the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives more authority to investigate gun crimes, a top priority for the gun control activist. "They have enough," he said in an interview.

As a result, Democratic strategists and several of the candidates themselves predict the debate over gun laws this campaign will be less divisive. Democrats might fight for narrow proposals to make guns safer and more difficult for children and criminals to obtain, they said, yet voters are likely to hear as much about enforcing existing gun laws as creating new ones -- a position Republicans and the NRA have pushed for years.

"What you are seeing . . . is a sea change" from the 1990s, when President Bill Clinton and Gore championed several major gun laws -- and paid a big political price for it, said Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the NRA.

"It's very important for us as Democrats to understand that where I come from guns are about a lot more than guns themselves," said Sen. John Edwards (N.C.), one of nine Democrats seeking the presidency. "They are about independence. For a lot of people who work hard for a living, one of the few things they feel they have any control over is whether they can buy a gun and hunt. They don't want people messing with that, which I understand."

The change holds true in Congress, too. Many Democrats are playing down gun issues there, and several, including Senate Minority Leader Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.), are co-sponsoring a bill to shield gun manufacturers from lawsuits, a top NRA priority for the 108th Congress. In the 2002 congressional races, 94 percent of NRA-endorsed candidates won.
…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17706-2003Oct25.html
 
Too big to post here in its entirety, but everyone should read.

Demorats distances themselves from gun control


THIS, however, is a CRITICALLY important sentence, which shows that this is a political expediency, and nothing else. When they regain control, watch out...

"Indeed, the Democrats' shift away from gun control is rooted more in politics than a belief that gun laws do not help prevent crime and death, several Democrats said privately."


This one is also important, and telling...

"Some gun control advocacy groups argue that Democrats are misreading the politics, pointing to rural states with high populations of gun owners such as Michigan, which Gore won. Several candidates and strategists disagreed with that assessment, however."
 
I was going to say 'what else is new?' but at least what we all have known is in print.
 
Actually this article is talking about something very significant that is happening within the Democratic Party and I believe it is because many formerly anti-gun liberals are now switching to a more moderate view about gun regulations because of the Bush administration's totalitarianism.

By Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 26, 2003; Page A01

MANCHESTER, N.H. -- Democratic presidential candidates are distancing themselves from tough gun control, reversing a decade of rhetoric and advocacy by the Democratic Party in favor of federal regulation of firearms.

Most Democratic White House hopefuls rarely highlight gun control in their campaigns, and none of the candidates who routinely poll near the top are calling for the licensing of new handgun owners, a central theme of then-Vice President Al Gore's winning primary campaign in 2000.

Howard Dean, the early frontrunner this year, proudly tells audiences the National Rifle Association endorsed him as governor of Vermont. As president, Dean said he would leave most gun laws to the states. The federal government, Dean said in an interview here, should not "inflict regulations" on states such as Montana and Vermont, where gun crime is not a big problem. New York and California "can have as much gun control as they want," but those states -- and not the federal government -- should make that determination, he said.

(Dean's candidacy has taken alot of Democratic insiders by surprise. I think they are following his lead on this issue.)

Rep. Richard A. Gephardt, a longtime gun control advocate, is careful to highlight his support for law-abiding gun owners. The Missouri Democrat said he is not interested in giving the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives more authority to investigate gun crimes, a top priority for the gun control activist. "They have enough," he said in an interview.

(Remember that Gephardt is the former House minority leader for the Democratic Party and is now a presidential candidate.)

As a result, Democratic strategists and several of the candidates themselves predict the debate over gun laws this campaign will be less divisive. Democrats might fight for narrow proposals to make guns safer and more difficult for children and criminals to obtain, they said, yet voters are likely to hear as much about enforcing existing gun laws as creating new ones -- a position Republicans and the NRA have pushed for years.

"What you are seeing . . . is a sea change" from the 1990s, when President Bill Clinton and Gore championed several major gun laws -- and paid a big political price for it, said Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the NRA.

(The vice president of the NRA agrees that this is a major shift.)

"It's very important for us as Democrats to understand that where I come from guns are about a lot more than guns themselves," said Sen. John Edwards (N.C.), one of nine Democrats seeking the presidency. "They are about independence. For a lot of people who work hard for a living, one of the few things they feel they have any control over is whether they can buy a gun and hunt. They don't want people messing with that, which I understand."

(If Sen. Edwards doesn't win the presidential nomination, he is on the short list of every candidate for their running mate pick.)

The change holds true in Congress, too. Many Democrats are playing down gun issues there, and several, including Senate Minority Leader Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.), are co-sponsoring a bill to shield gun manufacturers from lawsuits, a top NRA priority for the 108th Congress. In the 2002 congressional races, 94 percent of NRA-endorsed candidates won.

(And the Senate Democratic minority leader is now co-sponsoring bills that the NRA has proposed.)
…
 
Frankly, I am sickened whenever I hear any candidate from the Democratic party professing to be pro gun rights. All I can think of is the old line, " How do you tell when a Democrat is lying? Answer, His lips are moveig"

the Democratic party has been dominated by anti gun liberals for so long that there is Zero chance that it will suddely reverse course and embrace RKBA. Notice that the ones making noises like a pro gun advocate tend to be willing to endorse hunting rights and littled else.

When and if I see tom Daschele, Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean, or Joe Biden, and their cohorts wholeheartedly endorsing RKBA for all non criminal CITIZENS, then and only then will I believe that anything has changed. Meanwhile I will continue to support what I consider to be the lesser of 2 evils, The Republican party.
 
"It's very important for us as Democrats to understand that where I come from guns are about a lot more than guns themselves," said Sen. John Edwards (N.C.), one of nine Democrats seeking the presidency. "They are about independence. For a lot of people who work hard for a living, one of the few things they feel they have any control over is whether they can buy a gun and hunt. They don't want people messing with that, which I understand."
Click to expand...

There you go: guns = independence. Not just self defense. Not just defense against tyranny. Gun ownership is the right of a free and independent people.

So they talk the talk ... now it's time to walk the walk, and let the AWB epire.
 
I still believe the Clintons run the the Democratic party. Bill Clinton didn't start to mention guns until the last year he was president. Then all of sudden all the democratic mayors and cities started to sue the gun manufacturers. I beleive the Clintons were behind all of this.

Don't forget about WACO or Ruby Ridge in the first half of his administration. Everyone blamed Janet Reno. I don't believe Janet Reno did anything on her own. She was a puppet for the Clintons. Also, we had so many law suits that the lawyers got very rich during this period. Clinton came to Cincinnati to collect money from Stan Chelsey one of those lawyers who did class action suits. He gave Clinton Millions of dollars during the time he was president.

I would be afraid to take a chance on the Democrats, because of THEIR influence. IMHO

MRS. TORO


___________________________________________________
1 Chronicles 15:29
and it came to pass, as the ark of the covenant of the Lord came to the city of David that Michael the daughter of Saul looking out a window saw king David dancing and playing and she despised him in her heart.
 
"fmjcafe" is right, as are most of the others who have posted on this topic. While the Democrats profess to be "moderate" and "more reasonable" on gun-rights issues they are planning to filibuster in the Senate to stop a bill that would end their politically motivated lawsuits against handgun makers, working their butt’s off trying to get the Assault Weapons Ban renewed and made worse, and are fighting tooth and nail to defeat concealed weapons licensing laws. If anyone wants to know what the Democrats’ REAL stance is ask the folks who live in Missouri. What we have been seeing lately is not a change of thinking; it’s a change in how they plan to fool the voters.
 
because of the Bush administration's totalitarianism
Click to expand...


From google search on "totalitarian":

For example, of the states most commonly described as totalitarian—the Soviet Union under Stalin, Nazi Germany, and the People’s Republic of China under Mao—the Communist regimes of the Soviet Union and China sought the universal fulfillment of humankind through the establishment of a classless society (see communism); German National Socialism, on the other hand, attempted to establish the superiority of the so-called Aryan race.


OK, I am not a big Bush fan, but even I won't go so far as to call him "totalitarian".

As far as the Democrats coming around on guns, I'll have to see some action rather than just words. Unfortunately, as far as the Presidency goes, that means that one of 'em would have to win first!
 
whether they can buy a gun and hunt. They don't want people messing with that, which I understand
Click to expand...

Yes, Sen. Edwards, but do you "understand" that people also want firearms for self-defense, and that they want to be able to use them in self-defense without being treated like a criminal themselves?:banghead:

No, I don't quite think "messing with that" would be too popular in the "say anything to get elected" party.

And in fairness, the Republicans are not much better.
 
Dems Back-off Gun Control (Riiiiiight)

From today's Washington[Com]Post
Democratic Hopefuls Play Down Gun Control
By Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 26, 2003; Page A01
MANCHESTER, N.H. -- Democratic presidential candidates are distancing themselves from tough gun control, reversing a decade of rhetoric and advocacy by the Democratic Party in favor of federal regulation of firearms.
Most Democratic White House hopefuls rarely highlight gun control in their campaigns, and none of the candidates who routinely poll near the top is calling for the licensing of new handgun owners, a central theme of then-Vice President Al Gore's winning primary campaign in 2000.

Howard Dean, the early front-runner this year, proudly tells audiences that the National Rifle Association endorsed him as governor of Vermont. As president, Dean said he would leave most gun laws to the states. The federal government, Dean said in an interview here, should not "inflict regulations" on states such as Montana and Vermont, where gun crime is not a big problem. New York and California "can have as much gun control as they want," but those states -- and not the federal government -- should make that determination, he said.

Rep. Richard A. Gephardt, a longtime gun control advocate, is careful to highlight his support for law-abiding gun owners. The Missouri Democrat said he is not interested in giving the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives more authority to investigate gun crimes, a top priority for the gun control activist. "They have enough," he said in an interview.

As a result, Democratic strategists and several of the candidates
themselves predict the debate over gun laws in this campaign will be less divisive. Democrats might fight for narrow proposals to make guns safer and more difficult for children and criminals to obtain, they said, yet voters are likely to hear as much about enforcing existing gun laws as creating new ones -- a position Republicans and the NRA have pushed for years.
"What you are seeing . . . is a sea change" from the 1990s, when President Bill Clinton and Gore championed several major gun laws -- and paid a big political price for it, said Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the NRA.

"It's very important for us as Democrats to understand that where I come from guns are about a lot more than guns themselves," said Sen. John Edwards (N.C.), one of nine Democrats seeking the presidency. "They are about independence. For a lot of people who work hard for a living, one of the few things they feel they have any control over is whether they can buy a gun and hunt. They don't want people messing with that, which I understand."

The change holds true in Congress, too. Many Democrats are playing down gun issues there, and several, including Senate Minority Leader Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.), are co-sponsoring a bill to shield gun manufacturers from lawsuits, a top NRA priority for the 108th Congress. In the 2002 congressional races, 94 percent of NRA-endorsed candidates won.

In the presidential race, several candidates said the gun issue contributed to Gore's defeat in 2000 and could backfire on the party again next year if Democrats do not quickly lose their anti-gun image .

Indeed, the Democrats' shift away from gun control is rooted more in politics than in a belief that gun laws do not help prevent crime and death, several Democrats said privately. It started after the 1994 elections, when Democrats lost control of the House and watched such veterans as then-Speaker Thomas S. Foley (Wash.) get ousted after the Democratic-controlled House passed legislation making it illegal to "manufacture, transfer or possess" 19 semiautomatic firearms. The bill, which Clinton signed into law, does not apply to the sale or possession of weapons legally held before the ban took effect.

Surveys showed that the gun issue played a huge if not decisive role in ending the Democrats' decades-long rule of the House that year. Still, many Democrats continued to target guns as a key contributor to violence and death, a belief reinforced for many by the 1999 Columbine shootings. Gore was among those leading the charge for new restrictions.

In the 2000 presidential primaries, Gore and former senator Bill Bradley (N.J.) engaged in what sounded to some like a bidding war for who would clamp down the hardest on handguns. Gore tried to distance himself from the gun issue in the waning months of his campaign against George W. Bush, but it was too late.

A key turning point in the debate over federal laws regulating guns came on election night, when Gore lost West Virginia, Arkansas and even his home state of Tennessee. Many of today's candidates blame the gun issue, in part, for Gore's defeat in those states and others. Gephardt said there's "no doubt" it "hurt" Gore.

As the candidates survey the map for 2004, they find that most competitive states are home to thousands of hunters and other gun owners -- states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania and New Mexico. Moreover, many of the gun owners in these swing states belong to labor unions, a base of the Democratic Party. Based on NRA estimates, LaPierre said as much as three-quarters of union households in some targeted states include gun owners. Some union strategists have privately told the candidates that the only way to win in these states is to back off guns.

Some gun control advocacy groups said Democrats are misreading the politics, pointing to rural states with high populations of gun owners such as Michigan, which Gore won. Several candidates and strategists disagreed with that assessment, however.

"The gun issue is the silent killer" of Democrats, said Deborah Barron of Americans for Gun Safety, which is tutoring candidates on the gun issue. "Democrats will be extinct in red states unless" they change how gun owners view their party. "Red states" is political shorthand for states President Bush won. These red states have a significantly higher percentage of gun owners than the states Gore won in 2000, studies show.

In a new national poll, Americans for Gun Safety -- which was created by the founder of Monster.com -- found gun owners by huge margins see Democrats as the party that wants to ban guns and blame law-abiding gun owners for crime problems.

The centrist Democratic Leadership Council, which helped moderate the party's image on trade and taxes in the 1990s, is teaming with Americans for Gun Safety to try to do the same for gun control. Dean and most of his rivals have privately consulted with one or both of the groups on a new approach. Former American for Guns Safety spokesman Matt Bennett recently signed on as communications director for retired Army Gen. Wesley K. Clark.

The two groups do not think the candidates should run away from the issue by staying silent, which many are doing on the campaign trail. Instead, the groups are pushing a new mantra some of the candidates are adopting -- "with gun rights come responsibility."
In an interview, Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (Conn.), Gore's running mate in 2000, said, "People have a right to own and purchase guns . . . but it comes with responsibility."

Al From, who runs the DLC, recently said Democrats can turn the gun issue into an advantage if they vigorously push for gun safety and rigorous enforcement of laws while reassuring voters they stand firmly in support of the Second Amendment. The idea is to move away from broad restrictions such as mandatory registration and toward more popular and narrower ideas aimed at making guns safer and keeping them away from criminals and children, which polls show voters widely support.

In some ways, the shift is more rhetorical than substantive. Consider Dean.

While Dean appeals to the Democrats' liberal base, including many gun control activists, he portrays himself as the strongest defender of gun owners in the field.

Massachusetts Sen. John F. Kerry accused Dean of going overboard by playing to the NRA. "I don't think the Democratic Party should be the party of the NRA or walk away from our values for expedient political reasons," Kerry said.

Yet "the irony with Dean is his policy positions on guns is exactly the same as" those of his rivals, said Americans for Gun Safety policy director Jim Kessler, who surveyed the candidates' views on gun topics. "But he is making a point about his support for Second Amendment rights and vigorous enforcement. The reason? This works as a strategy."
Still, the major candidates are under constant pressure from many party activists, including major donors in the Democratic bastions of New York and California, not to retreat from the gun fight altogether.

The candidates do oppose the gun liability bill Daschle supports and favor tougher background checks on people buying firearms at gun shows (this is often referred to as "closing the gun show loophole"). Lieberman is a co-sponsor of a gun show bill.

The big test for the candidates will come as Congress begins considering whether to extend the 1994 ban on some semiautomatic weapons, which will expire next year. Some congressional Democrats want to make the law permanent and fold additional gun models and the importation of high-ammunition clips into the ban. But Bush favors a straight extension -- and that is a position many of the candidates sound willing to settle for.

"I would be happy to just extend it," Gephardt said.

--This just means they understand one of teh reasons they lost the last election. Doesn't mean for a minute that they won't get back to trying to limit 2A rights if they get in. :cuss: :fire:
 
"I don't think the Democratic Party should be the party of the NRA or walk away from our values for expedient political reasons," Kerry said.
Click to expand...

You've gotta have values before you can walk away from them. The term Kerry is looking for is "flip-flop". The standard, time tested tactic of the democratic party to say anything, suck up to anyone and violate any election laws for expedient political reasons.
 
AL GORE


Remember him? He was an "A" rated politician according to the NRA, so long as he depended upon the "peasants" in his home, pro-RKBA, state of Tennnessee. As soon as he was no longer beholden to them, he could show his true liberal colors and allegiance to the liberal wing of the "democratic" party, which is most of it.
 
hey dummy,

"They are about independence. For a lot of people who work hard for a living, one of the few things they feel they have any control over is whether they can buy a gun and hunt.
Click to expand...


The 2A AINT about HUNTING!

:banghead: :cuss: :fire: :what: :rolleyes: :barf:
 
Grrr...

Dean is slime. His policy of leaving gun laws to the states indicates he read some of the original Constitution, but conveniently never studied the civil war or the reconstruction amendments.

Waite court shenanigans notwithstanding, it boggles my mind how anyone can look at something saying "..., the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," then "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States," and somehow conclude that it's okay for States to make laws restricting firearm ownership or carry.

Then there's Kerry. "I don't think the Democratic Party should be the party of the NRA or walk away from our values for expedient political reasons." Good for you, bozo. Unfortunately that's never stopped Democratic candidates from taking expedient politically-motivated positions before.

And Gephardt? "[BATF] have enough [authority]." Enough authority to turn the U.S. into a police state, surely. I'm not sure what else they have authority to do. They certainly have no authority if judged by the Constitution.

"Totalitarian," "communist," "socialist," "fascist," "statist," ... so many words so misused and abused, nobody knows what they mean anymore, if they ever even had distinct meanings.
 
>>"The gun issue is the silent killer" of Democrats, said Deborah Barron of Americans for Gun Safety, which is tutoring candidates on the gun issue.<<

Funny, I've never seen a dictionary definition of "tutoring" that included "teaching to lie."
 
Democrats might fight for narrow proposals to make guns safer and more difficult for children and criminals to obtain
Click to expand...

Bxxx-Fxxxing-Sxxx!

They'll work to make gun ownership and use more expensive and more burdensome, for the sole purpose of convincing people not to own guns.
 
Instead, the groups are pushing a new mantra some of the candidates are adopting -- "with gun rights come responsibility."
Click to expand...
Well duh.:rolleyes: :banghead:

Democrats might fight for narrow proposals to make guns safer and more difficult for children and criminals to obtain...
Click to expand...
Umm, children cant obtain firearms without the owner of the firearm handing it to them, or negligently leaving it out. Laws will not stop either from happening. Morons.

Eventually, it will get to the point that ownership is banned for all but LEO/.gov "for the children.":scrutiny: :banghead: :fire:
 
John Edwards misses the point entirely. If he's ever read the 2nd, he would know that it is NOT about hunting!!!!!!!!!

What a bunch of liars. The NRA (we'll soon see how much they are worth in the upcoming presidential election) CANNOT allow the Democrats to back hunters and totally screw the 2nd ammendment. Since the democratic base is so liberal, they will never support a truly pro gun presidential candidate. This talk of supporting hunters is pure hogwash, and ad campaigns need to expose the lying politicians that "support" hunters and have anti-freedom voting records.

THESE DEMOCRATIC POLITICIANS THAT SUPPORT HUNTERS ARE THE DEVIL, AND THEY SHOULD BE PORTRAYED AS SUCH! Any time the NRA deals with the devil, criminals continue to swim in guns and the law-abiding citizens of this great nation get the short end of the stick.
 
It started after the 1994 elections, when Democrats lost control of the House and watched such veterans as then-Speaker Thomas S. Foley (Wash.) get ousted after the Democratic-controlled House passed legislation making it illegal to "manufacture, transfer or possess" 19 semiautomatic firearms. The bill, which Clinton signed into law, does not apply to the sale or possession of weapons legally held before the ban took effect.

Surveys showed that the gun issue played a huge if not decisive role in ending the Democrats' decades-long rule of the House that year.
Click to expand...

worth repeating in every letter written in support of the end of AWBs
 
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