Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Yeah, and it's going to rain nickels tonight, too.
BIG must read article about Demorats and gun control in the Wash. Post...
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Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I'll trust a representative of the Democratic (sic) party to respect the Second Amendment the year after it snows in Dallas on Independence Day.
greyhound
Member
Lets see what happens in a high profile case where a burglar gets popped with a bolt-action .30-06 "hunting" rifle.
Wonder what the leftists will say about about "hunting rifles" then- its Ok to own them for hunting, but not to use them in self-defense?
Guess the next step is we have to leave them at the hunting club....
Sound familiar (maybe with a different accent, perhaps)?
XLMiguel
Member
Moderators-
Mr. Irwin was clearly up earlier than I was, please merge these threads. Just another example of gutless reportage by the Wash Post.
Thx, M2
Mr. Irwin was clearly up earlier than I was, please merge these threads. Just another example of gutless reportage by the Wash Post.
Thx, M2
Moparmike
Member
Ay, mate. It does at that.
Langenator
Member
Found a great matching set of quotes, courtesy of Mus over at 1911forum.com:
"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State" -- Heinrich Himmler
"People who like assault weapons they should join the United States Army, we have them." -- Wesley Clark
"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State" -- Heinrich Himmler
"People who like assault weapons they should join the United States Army, we have them." -- Wesley Clark
Moparmike
Member
That is scary stuff. I hadnt fully realized the similarities of the two movements until now.
ReadyontheRight
Member
As stated by Nancy Pelosi, the only objective of the Democrat party is to regain and keep power. They will say whatever they can to do so.
Preacherman
Member
Funny, I thought guns were anything but silent...
boltaction
Member
They are full of it....
Spread the word NOW folks, to all your gun buddies far and wide. The Dems will talk up THEIR version of Second Amendment rights:
You will be licensed, your guns will be registered, your handguns will be "smart" and all guns will be "well regulated" by the consumer products safety commission.
Guns that are too small, too inexpensive, too large, too military, and too "whatever the Democrats say" will be the made harder to obtain in some way. The gun may be safe, but your ammo will be taxed out the waZOO!
Please note that they want to coop the safety issue. They have already started to say things like "people who are trained (read: by the NRA) tend to keep their guns unlocked (read: accessible to kids and criminals) more than others". We must maintain the high ground here.
Also, I suggest that we begin to use the phrase "Family Protection". I tell people I am a "Family Protection/Human Rights" activist. Then I launch into the firearms activism. It really makes 'em think.
If we all spead the word that the "Dems are and WILL ALWAYS BE *ANTIS in gun clothing" by mouth and by email to ten other gun owners, and ask them to do the same, we can nip this pernicious canker on our country in the bud.
Otherwise, ALL your rifles may be:
Boltaction
Spread the word NOW folks, to all your gun buddies far and wide. The Dems will talk up THEIR version of Second Amendment rights:
You will be licensed, your guns will be registered, your handguns will be "smart" and all guns will be "well regulated" by the consumer products safety commission.
Guns that are too small, too inexpensive, too large, too military, and too "whatever the Democrats say" will be the made harder to obtain in some way. The gun may be safe, but your ammo will be taxed out the waZOO!
Please note that they want to coop the safety issue. They have already started to say things like "people who are trained (read: by the NRA) tend to keep their guns unlocked (read: accessible to kids and criminals) more than others". We must maintain the high ground here.
Also, I suggest that we begin to use the phrase "Family Protection". I tell people I am a "Family Protection/Human Rights" activist. Then I launch into the firearms activism. It really makes 'em think.
If we all spead the word that the "Dems are and WILL ALWAYS BE *ANTIS in gun clothing" by mouth and by email to ten other gun owners, and ask them to do the same, we can nip this pernicious canker on our country in the bud.
Otherwise, ALL your rifles may be:
Boltaction
boltaction
Member
hey Bill, I was trying to be optimistic! I would hate to have to change my name to flintlock or something...
Boltaction
Boltaction
twoblink
Member
I know quite a few people who's got their marshmellows and weinerdogs on skewers, ready and waiting to watch the AWB sunset..
They always talk to the talk, but you know they are lying.. Why? Because their mouth is moving..
They always talk to the talk, but you know they are lying.. Why? Because their mouth is moving..
Langenator
Member
Hmmm...last I checked, the most important safety feature on any firearm was a well trained, competent, safety conscious user who always keeps the 4 Fundatmentals in mind. Does this mean the Dems will be advocating shooting lessons for everyone?
There's a reason for this. See Feinstein, Dianne; Kennedy, Edward; Schumer, Charles; Lautenberg, Frank; Pelosi, Nancy. Most of the Dems' senior leadership in Congress comes from states that are extremely liberal, places that would relfexively elect a Democrat even if none ran.
See above. California and NY have so many votes (especially electoral votes) that the Dems can't win without them, so the two most anti-gun states in the country set a big chunk of the Dem agenda.
SDC
Member
Sure, sure.... And if you like that one, here's another good one for you; "I never had sexual relations with that Lewinski woman".
And if you like that one, here's another good one for you; "I never had sexual relations with that Lewinski woman".DonP
Member
It's a hot topic over at DU as well
The general concensus is how "pro-gun" do we have to look to win votes.
On the other hand, down in the "Gun Dungeon" at DU there is no respite from demands for more registration, assault weapons bans and other "reasonable" restrictions. The NRA is villified as a totally Republican, racist, homophobic etc. and always treated as if they represent every gun owner in America.
I guess their hope is that; "Maybe if we just don't talk about it people will think we dropped the issue and vote for us. Then when we are back in power we can do what we know is right." I bet the Brady's won't be spokespersons at the Dem convention though.
I see no real change in the party or its approach to the second amendment, other than a call by many Dems for hardening its gun control platform plank. They still don't take the millions of gun owning American's seriously as a political force. Their focus and major point of reference remains Sara Brady and Tom Diaz as the source of all gun related information.
I just keep wondering how long they will keep blaming the media, crooked voting machines, political pressure, the Bush family secret cabal etc for their ongoing losses at the ballot box. Sooner or later, probably after McAuliffe and the Clinton's have left power, they have to see that there are fundamental issues for the majority of American's that they are way off base on, the 2nd amendment is the most visible to us, but there are others as well.
Don P.
The general concensus is how "pro-gun" do we have to look to win votes.
On the other hand, down in the "Gun Dungeon" at DU there is no respite from demands for more registration, assault weapons bans and other "reasonable" restrictions. The NRA is villified as a totally Republican, racist, homophobic etc. and always treated as if they represent every gun owner in America.
I guess their hope is that; "Maybe if we just don't talk about it people will think we dropped the issue and vote for us. Then when we are back in power we can do what we know is right." I bet the Brady's won't be spokespersons at the Dem convention though.
I see no real change in the party or its approach to the second amendment, other than a call by many Dems for hardening its gun control platform plank. They still don't take the millions of gun owning American's seriously as a political force. Their focus and major point of reference remains Sara Brady and Tom Diaz as the source of all gun related information.
I just keep wondering how long they will keep blaming the media, crooked voting machines, political pressure, the Bush family secret cabal etc for their ongoing losses at the ballot box. Sooner or later, probably after McAuliffe and the Clinton's have left power, they have to see that there are fundamental issues for the majority of American's that they are way off base on, the 2nd amendment is the most visible to us, but there are others as well.
Don P.
w4rma
member
Of COURSE there are folks in the "gun dungeon" at DU calling for those things, *but* you'll notice that there are folks in the "gun dungeon" calling for the exact opposite also and most other folks are in between these two extremes, just like most Americans.
For a sample, here is one of many threads in that forum:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=18073
Notice the wide disparity in the responses.
Also, note that Sara Brady is a Republican (and she is still a Republican), not a Democrat.
http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/nation/guns/part4/sarah.html
For a sample, here is one of many threads in that forum:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=18073
Notice the wide disparity in the responses.
Also, note that Sara Brady is a Republican (and she is still a Republican), not a Democrat.
http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/nation/guns/part4/sarah.html
longeyes
member
Don't trust 'em.
They don't trust us, we shouldn't trust them.
They don't trust us, we shouldn't trust them.
DonP
Member
w4rma, yes but ...
There are always a number of pro-folks there, but a small fraction of the posts are pro second it seems. I've been pleasantly surprised to find a few here and there.
Pro second people get tombstoned all the time and Benchley and company keep referring to pro-people as all "Lying a-- wipe, racist scum" and a range of other charming ad hominem personal attacks and gets away with it. I guess because he contributes to DU, enough at least so that they won't drop him no matter what kind of hate, vitriol and cooked statistics he spews.
By the definitions of a lot of the anti folks over there, if you own a gun (or even belong to this forum) and don't believe in full registration, the assault weapons ban etc. you are a lying thieving repuglican. Sad but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of tolerance for opposing points of view.
My point was exactly that Sara Brady and company are indeed Republicans, but the leadership doesn't seem to want to tone down their gun control rhetoric and keep using them as their sole point of reference on all gun related matters.
That would be like the Republicans going to NOW for their point of view on pro-life issues. I don't get it, but it is fun to observe.
BTW, based on your sig line, Man it seems there is a lot of anti Dean rhetoric over there too! Is it because he has a big lead in funds and at the polls?
Don P.
There are always a number of pro-folks there, but a small fraction of the posts are pro second it seems. I've been pleasantly surprised to find a few here and there.
Pro second people get tombstoned all the time and Benchley and company keep referring to pro-people as all "Lying a-- wipe, racist scum" and a range of other charming ad hominem personal attacks and gets away with it. I guess because he contributes to DU, enough at least so that they won't drop him no matter what kind of hate, vitriol and cooked statistics he spews.
By the definitions of a lot of the anti folks over there, if you own a gun (or even belong to this forum) and don't believe in full registration, the assault weapons ban etc. you are a lying thieving repuglican. Sad but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of tolerance for opposing points of view.
My point was exactly that Sara Brady and company are indeed Republicans, but the leadership doesn't seem to want to tone down their gun control rhetoric and keep using them as their sole point of reference on all gun related matters.
That would be like the Republicans going to NOW for their point of view on pro-life issues. I don't get it, but it is fun to observe.
BTW, based on your sig line, Man it seems there is a lot of anti Dean rhetoric over there too! Is it because he has a big lead in funds and at the polls?
Don P.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Let's take a look at who the Dems have on the Judiciary committee in the House and Senate right now:
Conyers(Senior Dem)
Jackson-Lee
Biden
Leahy
Of course, we hardly need to elaborate on the noted accomplishments of
Kennedy
Schumer
Feinstein
These are the people the Democrats choose to head the committees that write gun laws in the United States.
Howard Dean can talk until he is blue in the face; but as long as these guys are the ones writing the laws, his vaguely moderate position doesn't do us much good.
Conyers(Senior Dem)
Jackson-Lee
Biden
Leahy
Of course, we hardly need to elaborate on the noted accomplishments of
Kennedy
Schumer
Feinstein
These are the people the Democrats choose to head the committees that write gun laws in the United States.
Howard Dean can talk until he is blue in the face; but as long as these guys are the ones writing the laws, his vaguely moderate position doesn't do us much good.
w4rma
member
My view on why enough Americans, to keep the powers that be on their toes, should stay armed:
I think that Americans need to stay armed in part to keep **ANY** conglomeration of power, either the government or an overseas/domestic economic (or otherwise) power, that would take control over the United States government and therefore our armed forces. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I do not want to see an American aristocracy created. America's founding fathers rebelled, and many patriots paid for our freedom with their lives, against the English aristocracy. We don't need a new one.
I think too many folks think that the government is the only power with the potential for oppression. They are darn correct that the government has the potential for oppression, but to say that a government is the only power with that potential is incorrect.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
There are *many* progressives who are pro-gun.
On my use of the word, "totalitarian":
Lawyers Furious as US Builds (Gitmo) Death Chambers
LAWYERS expressed outrage yesterday at plans to put al-Qaeda suspects, including two Britons and an Australian, on military trial in Guantanamo Bay.
They would effectively be tried by a “kangaroo courtâ€, stripped of all basic rights of due process that would be afforded in criminal courts in Britain or America, they said.
…
He said: “The construction of execution chambers makes virtually every lawyer in the Western world extremely angry. The idea that there is an artificial creation or enclave which, according to the Americans, is beyond the purview of all recognised systems of law is repugnant.â€
…
The Times/UK
http://www.democraticunderground.co....cgi?az=show_thread&om=8201&forum=DCForumID71
The Courier Mail: US Plans Death Camp (May 26, 2003)
THE US has floated plans to turn Guantanamo Bay into a death camp, with its own death row and execution chamber.
Prisoners would be tried, convicted and executed without leaving its boundaries, without a jury and without right of appeal, The Mail on Sunday newspaper reported yesterday.
The plans were revealed by Major-General Geoffrey Miller, who is in charge of 680 suspects from 43 countries, including two Australians.
…
“This camp was created to execute people. The administration has no interest in long-term prison sentences for people it regards as hard-core terrorists.â€
…
http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,6494000%5E401,00.html
http://www.democraticunderground.co....cgi?az=show_thread&om=3258&forum=DCForumID71
CBS Producer Fired For Comparing The Mood In America To That Of Germans Who Helped Hitler's Rise To Power
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2845.htm
Producer Is a Casualty in CBS's 'Hitler' Miniseries
…
In the April 12 TV Guide, the publication says that “Gernon stated his belief that fear fueled both the Bush administration's adoption of a preemptive-strike policy and the public's acceptance of it.†According to the article, “Gernon said a similar fearfulness in a devastated post-World War I Germany was 'absolutely' behind that nation's acceptance of Hitler's extremism.â€
Gernon is quoted as saying of the miniseries, which tracks Hitler's rise to power in 1930s Germany: “It basically boils down to an entire nation gripped by fear, who ultimately chose to give up their civil rights and plunged the whole world into war.
“I can't think of a better time to examine this history than now,†he added.
The article further quotes him as saying that “when an entire country becomes afraid for their sovereignty, for their safety, they will embrace ideas and strategies and positions that they might not embrace otherwise.â€
…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A5649-2003Apr10
The USA PATRIOT Act
I think that Americans need to stay armed in part to keep **ANY** conglomeration of power, either the government or an overseas/domestic economic (or otherwise) power, that would take control over the United States government and therefore our armed forces. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I do not want to see an American aristocracy created. America's founding fathers rebelled, and many patriots paid for our freedom with their lives, against the English aristocracy. We don't need a new one.
I think too many folks think that the government is the only power with the potential for oppression. They are darn correct that the government has the potential for oppression, but to say that a government is the only power with that potential is incorrect.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
There are *many* progressives who are pro-gun.
On my use of the word, "totalitarian":
Lawyers Furious as US Builds (Gitmo) Death Chambers
LAWYERS expressed outrage yesterday at plans to put al-Qaeda suspects, including two Britons and an Australian, on military trial in Guantanamo Bay.
They would effectively be tried by a “kangaroo courtâ€, stripped of all basic rights of due process that would be afforded in criminal courts in Britain or America, they said.
…
He said: “The construction of execution chambers makes virtually every lawyer in the Western world extremely angry. The idea that there is an artificial creation or enclave which, according to the Americans, is beyond the purview of all recognised systems of law is repugnant.â€
…
The Times/UK
http://www.democraticunderground.co....cgi?az=show_thread&om=8201&forum=DCForumID71
The Courier Mail: US Plans Death Camp (May 26, 2003)
THE US has floated plans to turn Guantanamo Bay into a death camp, with its own death row and execution chamber.
Prisoners would be tried, convicted and executed without leaving its boundaries, without a jury and without right of appeal, The Mail on Sunday newspaper reported yesterday.
The plans were revealed by Major-General Geoffrey Miller, who is in charge of 680 suspects from 43 countries, including two Australians.
…
“This camp was created to execute people. The administration has no interest in long-term prison sentences for people it regards as hard-core terrorists.â€
…
http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,6494000%5E401,00.html
http://www.democraticunderground.co....cgi?az=show_thread&om=3258&forum=DCForumID71
CBS Producer Fired For Comparing The Mood In America To That Of Germans Who Helped Hitler's Rise To Power
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2845.htm
Producer Is a Casualty in CBS's 'Hitler' Miniseries
…
In the April 12 TV Guide, the publication says that “Gernon stated his belief that fear fueled both the Bush administration's adoption of a preemptive-strike policy and the public's acceptance of it.†According to the article, “Gernon said a similar fearfulness in a devastated post-World War I Germany was 'absolutely' behind that nation's acceptance of Hitler's extremism.â€
Gernon is quoted as saying of the miniseries, which tracks Hitler's rise to power in 1930s Germany: “It basically boils down to an entire nation gripped by fear, who ultimately chose to give up their civil rights and plunged the whole world into war.
“I can't think of a better time to examine this history than now,†he added.
The article further quotes him as saying that “when an entire country becomes afraid for their sovereignty, for their safety, they will embrace ideas and strategies and positions that they might not embrace otherwise.â€
…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A5649-2003Apr10
The USA PATRIOT Act
w4rma
member
Passionate disagreements sometimes lead to over the top words. Folks from both extremes toss bombs, this definitely isn't limited to either side, not on DU and not here and not elsewhere, either.
Yes, there is alot of anti-Dean rhetoric on DU. It's the primary season and Democrats are battling over who will represent the Party as the presidential nominee. The other campaigns were caught off guard by Dean's outsider/Jimmy Carter-like surge to the lead. They have gone on the attack and so have their supporters.
Gov. Dean is indeed the current front-runner for the nomination. He is doing the best in the most early primary states. Dean is leading or is tied in the national polls, now. Dean demolished the previous Democratic fundraising record for a single quarter set by Clinton/Gore in 1996 and he did it with tens of thousands of small donors who aren't going to ask for backroom favors. Dean is also leading by helping to set the Democratic Party agenda (the article starting this thread is a good example of this).
Yes, there is alot of anti-Dean rhetoric on DU. It's the primary season and Democrats are battling over who will represent the Party as the presidential nominee. The other campaigns were caught off guard by Dean's outsider/Jimmy Carter-like surge to the lead. They have gone on the attack and so have their supporters.
Gov. Dean is indeed the current front-runner for the nomination. He is doing the best in the most early primary states. Dean is leading or is tied in the national polls, now. Dean demolished the previous Democratic fundraising record for a single quarter set by Clinton/Gore in 1996 and he did it with tens of thousands of small donors who aren't going to ask for backroom favors. Dean is also leading by helping to set the Democratic Party agenda (the article starting this thread is a good example of this).
Mark Tyson
Member
I am so sick of the Democrats pushing these bans and bills and useless, idiotic gun control schemes. I've been writing them (DNC, DLC etc.) and writing them telling them to drop gun control. My last letter, I told them that if they don't let the AWB expire I'm never coming back to the party(I'm still registered Democrat but not card carrying party member). After reading the recent news, I like to imagine that my letters have made a difference . . . but I'm looking for action, not words. They need to let the ban die a quiet, long overdue death and never think about extending any provision of it, and furthermore they need to stop pushing registration schemes, bullet "fingerprinting", and all the other inane nonsense. They need to end it all, now. We shall see what they do.
The hysterical reaction to Dean's quite tepid views on guns shows just how far the party has gone from JFK's day. I'm voting for Dean in the primary since he's the least anti gun of any of the Democrats. As for the general election ... who knows.
Time to walk the walk, boys. You stay the hell away from my rights and my heritage.
The hysterical reaction to Dean's quite tepid views on guns shows just how far the party has gone from JFK's day. I'm voting for Dean in the primary since he's the least anti gun of any of the Democrats. As for the general election ... who knows.
Time to walk the walk, boys. You stay the hell away from my rights and my heritage.
greyhound
Member
Can't prove this, but judging by the avatar its possible that the person in the DU thread referenced here defending 2A is a regular over at "Glock Talk". There is someone over there with the same avatar. Could be wrong of course.
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