"Bill banning assault pistol is introduced"

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Pete45

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Hi guys,
In reading the newspaper today (Long Island, NY "Newsday") I found an article entitled "Armor-piercing gun targeted" about the FN Five-seveN. There was a press conference recently concerning banning the weapon. One of the photos that accompanies the article shows a senator at the press conference displaying the weapon with his finger on the trigger. :banghead: They focus on how the weapon is a danger to police. I couldn't find the text of the article from today's paper, but I copy/pasted a story posted on their website yesterday.


Bill banning assault pistol is introduced

By DONNA DE LA CRUZ
Associated Press Writer

March 3, 2005, 8:26 PM EST

WASHINGTON -- The Five-SeveN pistol is small enough to fit into your pocket but packs a big punch _ its bullets can penetrate a bulletproof vest. One of the weapons was recently pulled off the streets of Camden County, N.J., and New Jersey and New York lawmakers want them out of the hands of the public for good.

New Jersey Democratic Sens. Jon Corzine and Frank Lautenberg, Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and Rep. Eliot Engel, D-N.Y., on Thursday introduced a bill that would make it illegal for anyone except a police officer or military official to possess the assault pistol.

In November, the Homeland Security Department issued an "Officer Safety Alert" regarding the pistol with the headline "body armor defeating handgun." The alert said that the Trumbull, Conn., police department had seized such a pistol and noted that its bullets were "advertised as being able to penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar at 50 meters."

The lawmakers said there is no legitimate reason for members of the general public to own the gun _ you wouldn't buy it for hunting, for example.

"This is not a Second Amendment issue," Corzine said. "Who needs one of these? The only reason is for violence."

The Protect Law Enforcement Armor (PLEA) Act would ban the sale, purchase and use of the handgun and its ammunition by anyone other than a police officer or military official. The bill would also prohibit the gun and bullets from being made in the United States.

Camden County Prosecutor Vincent Sarubbi urged lawmakers to support the bill, calling it a test case.

"If we let this one slip by, the flood gates will open," Sarubbi said.

A Five-SeveN gun was found on an alleged drug dealer in December during a drug investigation in Camden County, Sarubbi said. The gun had been purchased in Philadelphia using a false name and false Social Security number, he said.

Peter Newsham, the assistant chief of the Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police, said his department recently tested the gun and it penetrated a Kevlar vest.

"The danger of this gun is that it can be concealed," he said. He, too, urged Congress to support the bill.

Michael Barnes, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, challenged the National Rifle Association to defend the pistol, even daring NRA chief executive Wayne LaPierre to don a bulletproof vest to have the pistol tested. The NRA did not immediately return a telephone call for comment.

The pistol is made by the Belgian company FN Herstal, which has a U.S. division in McLean, Va. Richard DeMilt, director of sales and marketing for the U.S. division, said the pistol has been approved by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and the only ammunition available to the public are cartridges approved by the agency.

The bullets that can penetrate Kevlar vests are sold only to law enforcement and military agencies, and that ammunition is only released and shipped from a U.S. Customs-controlled warehouse, DeMilt said.

That information was little comfort to Bryan Miller, executive director of Ceasefire New Jersey, a group that seeks to reduce gun violence. His brother, an FBI agent, was killed along with two other agents when a gunman burst into their Washington, D.C., office in 1994 and opened fire with an assault weapon.

"There's no such thing as closure," Miller said at the news conference. "Police officers should not have to face this kind of gun."

Copyright © 2005, The Associated Press
 
VARifleman wrote:

It's hard to believe people are this stupid...just bogles my mind.

It is a grave strategic mistake to assume this behavior is rooted in stupidity.

316
 
The people supporting the ban probably just don't know better.
But the politicians and such who introduced the ban, and others like it, have intentions that are much more malicious.
 
If some company will come out with some affordable brass for these weapons, I'll buy one if it looks like they're gonna be banned. Otherwise, there's no chance. I vehemently disagree with the "principle" of what the antis are trying to do here, but as long as the gun is $700 and the ammo is $16/box, it's not worth it to invest in one. Yeah, I'll fight the legislation as much as I can, but FN isn't doing a whole lot to garner public support by restricting importation of the ammo.
 
Not a Second Amendment issue my rear end

What does this moron think depriving Americans of their gun rights is?
 
What I think is most interesting is the almost intentional confusion between the two kinds of ammo used in this gun. The round that is supposed to penetrate 48 layers of kevlar is the round only sold to LE/GOV. Sure, the other stuff will penetrate some armor, but not to the designed extent of the LE stuff. I'm sure the Five-seveN will be banned eventually.
 
I've heard (here, I think) that a strong enough knife thrust will pierce certain body armor.
This true?
 
"Michael Barnes, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, challenged the National Rifle Association to defend the pistol, even daring NRA chief executive Wayne LaPierre to don a bulletproof vest to have the pistol tested. The NRA did not immediately return a telephone call for comment."

That comment makes baby Jesus cry.


So I guess ice-picks, knives, and every other form of edged weapon on the planet should also be banned. In case these people don't understand kevlar won't stop any of these items.
 
Aha! I am correct!
Now, for it to be even better, anyone have any demonstrations of this?
Videos or images? >_>
 
Just read the back of any piece of body armor on the market.

They usually say something along the lines of:

"Without hard trauma plate, this vest provides no protection from blunt or edged weapons"

I'll go look at my vest in a minute and see what it says.
 
Essentially it's just a .22 Magnum RF in a round that's reloadable and can reliably cycle a semi-auto pistol. It's niche' should be home defense (it's a large pistol) for those with arthritus, and the recoil shy.

Geoff
Who likes the 20 Gauge for HD purposes, and a .45 for backup. :)
 
The Five-SeveN pistol is small enough to fit into your pocket but packs a big punch _ its bullets can penetrate a bulletproof vest.

Beg your pardon but isn't AP ammo avelabale for almost every handgun cartiage?

An icepick CAN penetrate a ABV. For that matter a standerd knife with a good point will penetrate in a stabbing motion if the person using it is strong enough.

How many people OWN a Five-Seven.

-Bill
 
I took this from a post at :
http://bastardsinc.blogs.com/bastardsinc/2004/01/fns_five_seven_.html


The classification of all ammunition is governed strictly by the definitions presented in the GCA. Specifically, as defined in 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(17)(B), the term "armor piercing ammunition" means-
1. a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
2. a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.


This type of ammunition is not commercially available. However if you were to purchase this handgun you would be able to buy SS196. This is the only type of ammunition available for commercial sales for this weapon. It uses a Hornady 40gr V-max bullet and leaves the barrel at 2100fps. Interestingly enough this bullet was fired from a FN Five-seveN with a 4 3/4 inch barrel and did not penetrate a Level II vest (by the way most officers like myself wear a level IIIa vest).
 
It's all about control.
A new term for the masses to become familiar with is Assualt Pistol, like Assault Dogs.

The potlickers and their staff certainly know how to get those that don't know, the sheeple, scared of inanimate objects. Rather than go after the person wielding the tool, making the object a weapon, they attack the tool. Blurring the lines of thought is key to control.

Credibility, integrity and responsibility are relics not to be practiced in modern politics.

Vick
 
"Michael Barnes, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, challenged the National Rifle Association to defend the pistol, even daring NRA chief executive Wayne LaPierre to don a bulletproof vest to have the pistol tested. The NRA did not immediately return a telephone call for comment."
Perhaps Wayne should invite Mr. Barnes to a debate where anyone telling a lie gets zapped by an electrode and see how long he lasts.

Actually, that could be quite interesting to watch. :what:
 
If some company will come out with some affordable brass for these weapons, I'll buy one if it looks like they're gonna be banned.

Doesn't matter. The bill says possession is illegal, not purchasing.

Now someone correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the armor piercing ammo restricted anyways? Can't civilians just buy ball ammo?

And why wouldn't a criminal buy a $80 CZ52? Could it be that the media keeps telling everyone that these are cop-killer guns, thereby probably driving gang members to buy them?

Michael Barnes, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, challenged the National Rifle Association to defend the pistol, even daring NRA chief executive Wayne LaPierre to don a bulletproof vest to have the pistol tested. The NRA did not immediately return a telephone call for comment

Call me a coward, but I am not standing with a buletproof vest in front of any gun voluntarialy. You could give me a vest with ballistic plates and put me up against a .25 and I ain't gonna do it.
 
The lawmakers said there is no legitimate reason for members of the general public to own the gun _ you wouldn't buy it for hunting, for example.

Oh, well that explains it all! Thanks guys, for letting us serfs come out of the fields to listen for a moment to your wisdom. We'll head back now, and if you don't mind maybe graze a bit as we go.
 
I was thinking about arrows too.
Heck, the Portuguese, I believe (and probably others) were using huge bows to pierce heavy armor back in the day.
With today's assault compound bows and tactical style arrow heads...that armor stands no chance.
 
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