Billy Ruger was a Superb Copy Cat and Marketeer

[Kynoch]

Modern industry is all about "make what the people want" and "make what has already been successful." ESPECIALLY if it is a larger company which answers to investors. That goes for movies, video games, TVs, cars and guns. Designing new things is expensive. If the design is a flops, a company can go belly up or lose investors. Innovations in the modern age come from small/independent/privately owned companies.

That has always been the case. Nothing specifically "modern" about it. I also don't think "make what has already been successful" is the rallying mantra of most successful companies.

But it really fascinating to look at Ruger. Billy did capitalize on existing product designs. He and his company did an excellent job of bringing manufacturing expertise and marketing/sales savvy to the BBQ. Ruger was also extremely astute in staying away from the manufacturing of guns that would have negatively impacted the image of his company.

He stayed away from all centerfire semi-auto pistols for a very long until his company could no longer wait to cash in. Even then Ruger stayed away from pocket pistols, cloning the M1911 or building their version of the AR-15.

The current Ruger management has capitalized by exploiting the very markets Ruger said he would never enter and they have done a superb job of it. From the LCP to the 25 round BX-25 10/22 magazine to the SR-556.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Not even a newb. Just from Kali I guess. All the repression has gotten to them.

 

[Sam Cade]

Really the MK I was a knockoff of the 22 Luger with a straight blow back action.

Not even. No relation to the Luger at all.

It's just a very simple blow back rimfire. The frame was based on a hand drill that ruger was already making.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Not even. No relation to the Luger at all.

It's just a very simple blow back rimfire. The frame was based on a hand drill that ruger was already making.

So much, the better.

 

[HOOfan_1]

I also don't think "make what has already been successful" is the rallying mantra of most successful companies.

It is absolutely ubiquitous in many industries. Why do you think there are so many sequels and remakes in the movies and video games?

Why do you think everyone and their mother made SUVs in the mid 90's...Why do you think everyone and their mother are making hybrids now?

 

[Kynoch]

Not even. No relation to the Luger at all.

It's just a very simple blow back rimfire. The frame was based on a hand drill that ruger was already making.

Thank you for the correction. It may look like a Luger from a distance, but the mechanics are vastly different.

I would also say the frame's manufacturing processes which derived from early tool making is what drove the design of the frame and not the design of the hand drill itself.

 

[JohnBT]

"Billy"

Did you know him well?

 

[Kynoch]

"Billy"

Did you know him well?

Not "well", no.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I'm sure there are other examples of copying by Ruger.

Big deal.

I don't much like Ruger. But I think everyone should own a 10/22.

 

[Kynoch]

Big deal.

I don't much like Ruger. But I think everyone should own a 10/22.

I feel that way about the Marlin 60...

 

[earlthegoat2]

Big deal.

I don't much like Ruger. But I think everyone should own a 10/22.

One could argue this is also a knockoff of an M1 Carbine in 22 caliber. However it does have an innovative rotary magazine which by no means copies the Garand or the Carbine.

 

[Sam Cade]

I would also say the frame's manufacturing processes which derived from early tool making is what drove the design of the frame and not the design of the hand drill itself.

I don't understand what you are trying to say.
Early Ruger standard frames are literally just hand-drill frames with additional holes.
The acute angle of the grip was/is common on manual drills.

 

[Kynoch]

I don't understand what you are trying to say.
Early Ruger standard frames are literally just hand-drill frames with additional holes.
The acute angle of the grip was/is common on manual drills.

Let me try again. I don't believe Billy thought "the existing design for my hand drill is perfect for my MKI pistol frame." Ruger (even with Sturm's money) was financially on its backside right around this time. I believe Ruger realized the drill frame would accommodate the Nambu design and he was pretty much forced to make use of as much as the drill tooling (and possibly existing materials) as he could.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Lets just agree that the MK I is nothing like the Luger or the Nambu.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Copy cat? Perhaps the Ruger Mk I was externally styled after a military gun, but it's lock work and construction methods were not. The Mini-14 has entirely new gas system from the M-14. If you study the trigger group of the AC-556, you will notice that his engineers used an entirely different approach from the M-14. The initial Single Actions were similar to Colt's, but the latter were different. If you examine the parts of the P series pistols, you cannot help but notice there are fewer parts and those parts are multi-tasked.

One should look beyond the appearance to appreciate the engineering of a gun. Otherwise we could say that the AK-47 is no more than a Browning Rem Model 8 with a new gas system and a detachable magazine.

BTW, when I was at the Browning Firearms Museum last week, I pointed out the similar features the AK shares with the Rem 8. They were surprised that they never noticed it before.

 

[mnhntr]

Ya name one company that is a current force in the market place that has not built knock offs? I am sure whatever your a fan boy of does the same exact thing.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I believe Ruger realized the drill frame would accommodate the Nambu design and he was pretty much forced to make use of as much as the drill tooling (and possibly existing materials) as he could.

Ah--so your point is that he was smart and efficient. And that you prefer Marlins.



Well, that's fine. "Let us now praise famous men" is a much better precept than "speaking ill of the dead," wouldn't you say?

 

[M-Cameron]

so you think that you should only be allowed to make and sell guns which are 100% of your own design?

you can look at any company and find evidence of "copying" .......and the reason why is pretty simple........its because mechanically speaking, there are only so many ways of sending a bullet down a barrel.

this is why we have patents, so the company that creates the design gets reimbursement for their work.......and this is also why patents are allowed to expire, so you have variation and competition in the market place.......this is a good thing

 

[hso]

The only point to this thread appears to be to stir the pot. The facts presented are sufficient.