Kalashnikov upset by Indian 'copy'

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jun 11, 2003
Messages
315
Location
Puerto Rico
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3466117.stm

_39829315_ak_ap203b.jpg

The Russian company behind the world's most infamous rifle, the Kalashnikov AK-47, is up in arms over an alleged copy made by India's state weapons maker.
Representatives from Izhmash, the gun's original manufacturer, discovered what they see as an Indian rip-off of the AK-47 at an arms fair in Delhi.

But India's Ordnance Factory Board says the weapon is different enough to count as a distinct design.

AK-47 copies are produced in dozens of countries, but only a handful have formally licensed it.

The row blew up, Izhmash representatives told Agence France Presse news agency, when the man who invented the AK-47 in World War II visited OFB's pavilion at the arms fair and saw what he thought was a copy of his brainchild.

"I don't see any permission being given to India to manufacture the rifle" and sell it for export, said Izhmash's Andrei Vishnyakov.

Russia is India's largest supplier of weapons - although not of AK-47s.

'Threat'

The new weapon has yet to appear on OFB's website, which advertises products ranging from pistols to main battle tanks.

Still, OFB staff were keen to deny the accusation.

"The cocking mechanism is different, the lever has been changed and the barrel is chrome-plated," OFB gun designer Mohammad Ali told AFP.

For general manager MK Garg, Izhmash's complaint rests on a false premise.

"The Russian Kalashnikov was made in 1947 and no patent in the armament industry is valid beyond 30 years," he said.

"It seems they are threatened by our product."

Who owns what?

Izhmash has run into copyright problems before.

Russian companies spent two years disputing who controlled rights to the AK-47 before Izhmash finally won sole control in 2002.

But the millions of copies sold in arms bazaars over the world - and appearing on six national flags as well - have yet to produce much in the way of royalties.
 
insas_w1.jpg
221-1.jpg
221-2.jpg




I think this is what the Russians are complaining about, the INSAS rifle. Basically a AK with G3 style cocking handle and a thumb selector switch.
 
This is rediculous. Kalashnikov's design team ripped their ideas off from the Germans and Americans (yep, that's a Garand inspired bolt and trigger group alright). Nobody payed Garand royalties for the Kalashnikov, did they? It's funny that Kalashnikov adamantly denies that his gun was derivative and yet complains when somebody else refaces his refacing job?
 
:confused: :confused:

OK, I don't get it--what's the supposed problem? Despite the statement in the first post that "Izhmash has run into copyright problems before," in my understanding, inventions aren't copyrightable. It would be patentable if there was anything innovative (which I'm sure there was), but the patents would have expired long, long ago. (The "47" in "AK-47" refers to 1947, which was 57 years ago. I belive the US patents run for something like 17 years; I don't know how long they run in other countries.) So, it should long have been fair game for anyone who wants to make an exact copy.
 
Jezz am i supposed to be heartbroke about this.. if this is such a problem shouldnt colt be suing everyone else making 1911's
 
Kalashnikov

I can't understand why a guy who was probably paid 4 loaves of brown bread a week and a pound of bacon while he worked on the design cares. He has publicly said in the past something to the effect that he wished he had designed a lawnmower instead. He isn't going to get royalties from this copy or even licensed versions. Do you think he made two rubles on all the AK's the Chinese made? Just don't quite understand the reasoning on this. I understand the russian arms manufactures interest, just not Kalashnikov's. Is it ego, does anybody know if he gets royalties? I bet not as wasn't he working for the state then?

Strange, James Browning he isn't, but then Browning did get a basic design going for a lawnmower, 8 ea. 50 Cal's mounted on a P-47.
 
I don't see Mikhail Kalashnikov mentioned in that article, just Izhmash. Besides the patent would be owned by the state, not the designer.

The Russians really don't have a case. The patent is too old. The Galil was a closer copy than the INSAS and I doubt Izhmash got any royalty from Israel. India is Russia's best arms customer, so I think the Russians figure they have some leverage.

Moving the cocking handle there is really a neat idea. Clever way to get rid of the AK selector bar/ejection port cover.
 
Looks like it has a strong dose of of FAL genes, also.

The sights look like they are a big improvement. I am considering getting one of the cowboy looking tang mounted sights and installing it on an AK. I can live with the safety, (though the Indian safety is an improvement), but I can't stand the AK sights. I hope Izhmash does not sue me.
 
Not only was Kalashnikov not mentioned as a complaintant but, Izmash has a lot of nerve talking about royalties when they dont pay one red cent to Mikhail Kalashnikov when making fortunes off of his design.

and this:
This is rediculous. Kalashnikov's design team ripped their ideas off from the Germans and Americans (yep, that's a Garand inspired bolt and trigger group alright). Nobody payed Garand royalties for the Kalashnikov, did they? It's funny that Kalashnikov adamantly denies that his gun was derivative and yet complains when somebody else refaces his refacing job?

is silly. The AK-47 DOES borrow from a number of other weapon designes. But, it is hardly a "refacing job". By your argument any design that uses elements from any other design owes someone royalties. If that were the case we would have nothing but 1911's and lever guns in this country. Lets not forget that WE "ripped off" quite a few arms ideas fromt he germans as well (think MG42).
 
I am really concerned that this Indian version may just flood the market and lower the value of my Chinese AK. I know the chinese paid big bucks to license the design. Maybe I should sell it before the value falls to the floor:D :D :rolleyes:
 
c_yeager:
...this is silly. The AK-47 DOES borrow from a number of other weapon designes. But, it is hardly a "refacing job". By your argument any design that uses elements from any other design owes someone royalties. If that were the case we would have nothing but 1911's and lever guns in this country. Lets not forget that WE "ripped off" quite a few arms ideas fromt he germans as well (think MG42).
I think you misunderstood my post. While I still believe that the AK47 was highly derivative, I don't think that an implement of war produced by the state needs to pay royalties to anybody. Similarly, the Russians didn't pay Einstein for their use of the atom bomb, now did they? I didn't argue that anybody should be paid royalties, in fact, I am against them in this case.

Now, don't get me started on S&W ripping off the Glock design or Taurus ripping off Kel-Tec.
 
Hmmm, so the Russians are mad because in this new Century, 2004, the Indian dumbasses decided to design a new rifle based on a 60 year old design. Is it any wonder why NOONE has any respect for Indian weapons. The Russians should be laughing.......
 
Hmmm, so the Russians are mad because in this new Century, 2004, the Indian dumbasses decided to design a new rifle based on a 60 year old design. Is it any wonder why NOONE has any respect for Indian weapons. The Russians should be laughing.......

Almost as stupid as all those people that keep paying out the nose for those nearly century old pistols designed in 1911. :rolleyes:
 
grendelbane, before you drop money on the cowboy peep. Check out the A2 style rear sight from www.krebscustom.com I have one and it is a great peep sight for the AK.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top