Black Panthers, forty years ago

[Chui]

Nice write up, American By Blood, however, the antagonism required for Socialism to make headway requires racism, by default. The people I knew/know who were affiliated (either members or supporters) were absolute racists - lets make no mistake about this. Many of them still are. That said, I think they would rather be called "revolutionaries" and now even Trotksiites before being called racist.

Not much room for either/any of their philosophy in the USA from my not-asked opinion.

 

[Chui]

That would be the New BPP and is not to be confused with the original BPP - or so I've been told. I think they need to find a better, non-threatening way of getting their message across - not that I'd be one to listen too intently...

 

[freakazoid]

No.

It is a dark-humor reference to the Jonestown Massacre of 1978, where all the inhabitants of a cult commune, on orders from their crazed leader Jim Jones, drank grape Kool-Aid poisoned with cyanide. Over 900 people died.

The medium for the mass murder/suicide somehow worked its way into political vernacular as variations of "you/he drank the kool-aid", meaning "you are too accepting of the worst ideas of my political opposition."

In this thread specifically, you wrote "Communism is one of the reasons they believed that they have a right to firearms", and Chui (in a darkly humorous manner) is accusing you of actually believing such an absurd notion (as once the revolution ends, the FIRST thing communist leaders will do is take away all the guns from all the people, and going so far as on-the-spot murdering anyone who even suggests what you wrote). The term he used applies because you have obviously accepted a sweet-tasting idea that, if brought about, would kill you.

It's not a drug reference.

Oh I see, thanks for answering,

And about the guns being taken away. In a truly communist society that would not happen. At the revleft site linked in my sig there are two threads on gun control and most are against it, although there are some who are for it,

Nice write up, American By Blood, however, the antagonism required for Socialism to make headway requires racism, by default. The people I knew/know who were affiliated (either members or supporters) were absolute racists - lets make no mistake about this. Many of them still are. That said, I think they would rather be called "revolutionaries" and now even Trotksiites before being called racist.

Racism is REALLY looked down on by communists.

 

[Barrel First]

"The Black Panthers embodied a great and noble idea."

The Black Panthers were racist thugs who wantonly murdered those in opposition to their ideology. They slaughtered civilians and law-enforcement officers alike in a perverse appeal to "black power".

I don't need any half-assed, propagandist references from you as I lived through that time...I witnessed the truth.

 

[Chui]

Get real, freakazoid! A system that destroys the souls of it's SUBJECTS and physically destroys anyone who does not accept their sick mantra cares not for anyone. You'll get no quarter here.

Look to Black Africa. I'm sure Joe Slovo loved his "comrades". Not.

The Communists reached out to MLK, Jr, Cleaver, et als because it was a potent potential wedge to defeat the Capitalist West, best represented by the USA.

 

[freakazoid]

I don't need any half-assed, propagandist references from you as I lived through that time...I witnessed the truth.

You was there? Well what is the truth?

Get real, freakazoid! A system that destroys the souls of it's SUBJECTS and physically destroys anyone who does not accept their sick mantra cares not for anyone. You'll get no quarter here.

Look to Black Africa. I'm sure Joe Slovo loved his "comrades". Not.

The Communists reached out to MLK, Jr, Cleaver, et als because it was a potent potential wedge to defeat the Capitalist West, best represented by the USA.

Sick mantra? Destroys the souls of it's subjects? What are you talking about? Is caring about people, and actually helping them, sick? Is Jesus sick?

 

[Barrel First]

"And about the guns being taken away. In a truly communist society that would not happen."

More than one hundred million victims of the last century would call you either a willing fool or a shameless liar.

Your grasp of history is appallingly shallow...

 

[Chui]

'Racism, the ugly root of all gun control."

I cannot say that this is the case for ALL gun control, but certainly it plays a large, albeit unspoken role, in the US gun control (post-Revolutionary US and Reconstruction).

Good call, Systema1927.

 

[freakazoid]

"And about the guns being taken away. In a truly communist society that would not happen."

More than one hundred million victims of the last century would call you either a willing fool or a shameless liar.

Your grasp of history is appallingly shallow...

I've said it before and I will say it again. There has never been a communist government. Those countries were not communist! Just because they claim to be does not make it so.

 

[Chui]

Esu Jmmanuel (Jesus to you) was no freaking Socialists. Socialism worships Man/The State and recognizes no God. WTH are you talking about, mate???

 

[Barrel First]

"You was [sic] there? Well what is the truth?"

Can't you read? Or is comprehension your problem?

I was not only alive during that period but witnessed the anarchy.

Here it is again:

The Black Panthers were racist thugs who wantonly murdered those in opposition to their ideology. They slaughtered civilians and law-enforcement officers alike in a perverse appeal to "black power". They not only openly preached hate for the white race but sanctioned the most brutal crimes against those whose only "fault" was the color of their skin.

Were you even alive then? Of course not...and you're doing nothing more than regurgitating the feces you've been force-fed.

 

[freakazoid]

Esu Jmmanuel (Jesus to you) was no freaking Socialists. Socialism worships Man/The State and recognizes no God. *** are you talking about, mate???

Communism is classless and STATELESS.

Acts 4:

32All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.

1 Samuels 8, The LORD God telling the people that only He is to be King over them.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Samuels 8;&version=31;

"You was [sic] there? Well what is the truth?"

Can't you read? Or is comprehension your problem?

I was not only alive during that period but witnessed the anarchy.

Here it is again:

The Black Panthers were racist thugs who wantonly murdered those in opposition to their ideology. They slaughtered civilians and law-enforcement officers alike in a perverse appeal to "black power". They not only openly preached hate for the white race but sanctioned the most brutal crimes against those whose only "fault" was the color of their skin.

Were you even alive then? Of course not...and you're doing nothing more than regurgitating the feces you've been force-fed.

I'm sorry, I don't usually look to see who the person is that is posting. And, did you not read what I had posted on the racism bit?

 

[Chui]

You're HOPELESS, freakazoid. You really don't get it do you?

Absolutely amazing...

 

[freakazoid]

Which part do I not get?

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

Gov. Ronald Reagan was about to join an eighth-grade social studies class on the Capitol's west lawn for a fried chicken lunch.

Probably not apropos of anything, but my ex-wife was in that class. She's more or less an anti now, I hope there isn't any connection...

 

[Monkeyleg]

The reason I posted the initial topic was because of the effects that the Oakland Black Panther Party had upon the enactment of the GCA of 1968.

I didn't intend this thread to turn into a discussion of communism.

You know, it's getting to the point where I'm reluctant to start any threads at all, because every subsequent post is turning into into some shrieking match between keyboard combatants whose comments have nothing whatsoever to do with the original topic.

If I were a moderator, I'd call for lights out on this thread.

But I'm not a moderator.

So, have at it.

 

[ReadyAndVigilant]

The Panthers of old (like most armed movements) began as something good at its core and respectable... then, like Castro, deteriated into oppression of their own. They should be respected for taking a physical stand against the police state they were subjected to.

I think the New Black Panthers are more islamists today than marxists? I could be mistaken. Even when they do show up with arms, they are no longer loaded. I remember when they went to "confront" the KKK in Jasper after the dragging death of Mr. Byrd.

 

[Chui]

There is a Black Nationalist movement in the US and it is comprised of many factions:

disaffected ex-Nation of Islam adherents
BPP followers
Pan-Africanists

While there are Muslims present I don't have a clue as to their core beliefs about religion. One can see some of them wearing African garb yet others will maintain the NOI dress - sharply dressed in a suit without the bowtie.

The NOI is the only one that I know of that does not promote violence. Oddly enough, when one joins he must not possess firearms. This I was told by an old friend who joined years ago. Perhaps this is an attempt to thwart the BPP-idealogues who may wish to join. Who knows.

 

[Art Eatman]

True on-paper Communism has never existed. Given human nature, it never will come to be. Regardless of the mouth-music, those who create the systems we call "Communism" usually stop while they're in power, rather than continuing on to the true classless society as it's written.

On paper, in theory, Communism is classless, not racist, etc. etc. All comrades are equal. Everybody owns everything, which actually means nobody owns nuttin'. Dunno if that applies to underwear and toothbrushes.

IOW, folks are talking past each other, here in this thread. The word "Communism" is meaning different things to different people--as it usually does...

But stick to any factual stuff about the Black Panthers. Please.

I still remember a headline from the Berkeley Barb newspaper, back around 1967, IIRC. Maybe 1969. "Huey P. Newton is the baddest bleeper-bleeper who ever bleeped between two feet." What a recommendation!!!

And his reply to a question about the meaning of his, "Off the pigs!": "Aw, that's just rhetoric, man, it don't mean nothin'."

They did manage to rip off a few National Guard armories of M16s; no idea where those few hundred rifles are, now.

The 1960s Panthers had little credibility among those capable of objective thought.

Art

 

[Autolycus]

Barrelfist:

Have there ever been a truly communist society on this Earth ever?

Originally posted by Barrel fist:
"And about the guns being taken away. In a truly communist society that would not happen."

More than one hundred million victims of the last century would call you either a willing fool or a shameless liar.

Your grasp of history is appallingly shallow...

 

[Chui]

It doesn't matter if a "truly" Communist society ever been on earth to me, Tecumseh. If one reads the so-called leaders of Communism one will find bloodthirsty monsters. This is the philosophy espoused - sometimes directly and sometimes subtlely - to all of the individuals I've ever bumped into who were associated with the BPP. There are a lot of Trotskyites in the Detroit Metro Area and some of the clowns wax eloquently of the BPP and their willingness to "go to war" with the establishment (in a manner that would insure their deaths, may I add).

 

[Zundfolge]

Real, true, "pure" communism would identical to Real, true, "pure" Anarcho-capitalist Libertarianism ... only the people would magically cease to think of themselves as individuals.

I don't see it happening, and I do see the potential for a LOT of evil in the attempt to make it happen.


Now Marx was a charlatan and liar so yes, anyone who believes in Marxism is evil as far as I'm concerned (I don't care what their rhetoric or the rhetoric of their apologists says).

To try to defend Marxists and other Communists (like the BBP) by using the example of so-called "pure" Communism is a Straw Man if ever I saw one.

 

[ctdonath]

To allay Monkeyleg's justifiable dismay, I've forked the communist & guns thread here.

We now return you to our previously scheduled Black Panthers discussion...

 

[Monkeyleg]

Thank you, ctdonath.

That whole period was so schizophrenic that it's almost impossible for those of us who lived through it to understand it. For those who didn't, it must just seem like something out of a bad movie.

A friend of mine, whom I met in third grade, went down that weird path. When I would visit him at the "Community House" where he and all sorts of other people of bizzare ideology lived, it was sometimes frightening.

There were the Black Panthers, some card-carrying Communists, and some people like my friend who had abandoned the Communist Party because it was too moderate. (And that's as much as I want to mention about communism).

What was frightening was that everyone there was armed, and expecting to have to shoot "the man."

What? Someone on a gun forum is saying that he was bothered by people being armed and ready to shoot at authorities?

Yeah. It was spooky. The "Community House" was no different than any of the militias that gained notoriety in the 1980's and 1990's. These people expected to be attacked by J. Edgar or some other agency at any minute, and were prepared to shoot back.

And they weren't shy about shooting each other over drug matters, either.

Problem was, they were all so stoned that they would have shot at a picture of Efrem Zimbalist Jr. if they saw it.

What became of these people?

Quite a few ran for statewide office a few years later. Many of them won. Many are still state senators or representatives, which helps to explain at least in part Wisconsin politics.

As for my friend? He has a job with a small city agency that spends a lot of money refurbishing low-income homes. He doesn't have to work very hard, which is just fine by him.

Oh, and now that J. Edgar Hoover is dead, my friend is a rabid anti-gunner.

 

[wooderson]

This is the philosophy espoused - sometimes directly and sometimes subtlely

Haha, love the subtext. "I KNOW. Don't ask me how I know, I KNOW."

It's much easier to rail against your enemies when you've begun attributing motives to them that exist only in your mind.