Black powder blanks for theatrical use

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Everything I have read refers to the use of blank cartridges being used in cartridge revolvers in the movies and theatrical productions
..mainly due to safety considerations, not that I would want to be directly in front of a gun so fired.
What about the use of a cap and ball pistol or revolver used in reenactments? I have read of their use firing blank rounds with floral foam as a wad on top of a small powder charge.

Anyone here had experience in the use of such blanks?
 
Black powder burns so fast that in a rifle (54 cal) it will make a bang even without a wad.
Or at least it happened when I forgot to ram a bullet down the bore.
A bit of paper as a wad will ensure a convincing bang in a C&B revolver.
 
I am of the opinion that so long as the powder (in sufficient quantity) is held tightly together, it will make a bang.
 
Depending on the size of the theater, possibly just a cap could be used and make a convincing bang, although no smoke.
 
You really do not want to shoot a black powder blank indoors. A percussion cap will be loud enough, and stink enough. Western movies rarely use realistic looking black powder loads; they just smoke to much. A black powder blank like those used in mounted cowboy action matches will tear a soda can apart at close range.
 
With a muzzle-loader, you can do quite nicely just pouring a charge of powder down the bore.

With percussion revolvers, it's trickier. You need something on top of the powder. I used Cream of Wheat, then rammed home firmly - it worked fine. But many organizations won't allow revolvers precisely because of the concerns about chainfires.
 
Theatrical blanks have no wads whatsoever. Only a small charge of black powder held in place by something like toilet tissue. Keep in mind that Hollywood can "add' a gun shot sound despite the "poof" of the actual blank. Many movie prop guns use propane and never load actual cartridges. Cartridges ejected are simply special effects.
 
Ive seen how the flash and ejected cartridges from semi auto weapons can be rather "easily" recreated using photoshop, photoshop.premiere, and 3 d animaton software. plus sound files for the shots, as well as the propane props.
But I assume there are still state And perhaps federally licensed theatrical armorers that provide prop and firing weapons and services.
 
Some of you older guys may remember the TV show "Wise Guys". The star was bored one day between scenes so he played Russian roulette with a blank pistol. He died on the set and the show needed a replacement for their star.

Just use the caps or primers in an empty case in a conversion cylinder.
 
We did a show using black powder blanks recently. Trust me, even a small charge of black powder pointed at someone 7 to 8 yards away will spray their face with particles. I was glad I was wearing my safety glasses.

So anything used in a theater production is better off using only the primer or a cap. No powder at all. If you need to simulate some smoke I'd suggest trial runs with a SMALL amount of talcum and the least amount of wadded tissue paper you can get away with. Anything more and you risk getting stuff in the eyes of the actors that are in the field of fire.

And a hearty YEAH! to the danger of even modest powder blanks at close range. Part of the demo was shooting a pop can out of the hand from an inch away with a blank holding just 15grains of black powder. The cans were totally shredded as if they'd been hit by a 12Ga at 10 yards.

I would not want my hand directly in front of even a primer or percussion cap barrel either. The pressure pulse that close is still more than you'd expect. There was one time I wanted to test a firing pin after a mainspring job. I loaded just a primer in a case and shot it. To keep the noise down I held a piece of carpet to the muzzle. Just the primer from the 6 inch revolver barrel blew out a tuft of the carpet through the backing. I was glad that I had the presence of mind to not hold it against my hand.

Along this same line I'm pretty sure some quick draw folks that shoot the wax bullets with only a primer will confirm that being hit by one HURTS! ! ! !

If it goes BANG! or even "just" POP! it needs to be treated with the utmost respect and consideration.
 
One thing that most people do not notice:
If you watch those old TV shows & movies very carefully, and try to calculate exactly how the >actor< is holding his pistol, or rifle, and have a halfway decent concept of how cameras record 3 dimensional activities through a lens onto a 2 dimensional medium (film or videotape) you will see that when both the shooter and the .... "victims" appear in the same frame (or "picture" : what you get when you press pause on the remote while watching a DVD for example) the weapon is not aimed directly at the person, but off to one side or another.
I have noticed shots where a man is on a hillside, or window, aiming a rifle at a supposed victim, while in the picture it appears as if the gun is aimed at the somewhat distant person (due to it being a 2 dimension picture) I have realized that, in fact, the shooter was aiming no where near the person and in fact a real bullet would never even have landed within the frame of the picture as it was composed.
There was no doubt a safety concern in doing this, as well as what was a feeling that people just ought not be aiming weapons at people, even while using blanks just for the sake of a movie or TV show.
IMHO this would be a good practice for people making amateur productions to emulate as well.
I do think that one must also give consideration to what is used in lieu of blanks ... the use of percussion caps may be OK. I would hesitate with powder ..... aiming the gun to one side may not help as burning particles do not follow ballistic trajectories but also are affected by the wind and may fly off at angles to the bore axis and could still cause bad injuries.
 
Jon-Erik Hexum (November 5, 1957 – October 18, 1984) was an American model and actor. He died as a result of an accidental self-inflicted blank cartridge gunshot round to the head on the set of the CBS television series Cover Up in which he played the male lead.

Brandon Lee, son of the Late Bruce Lee, died of a gunshot wound on March 31, 1993 at the filming studio in Wilmington, North Carolina, at the age of 28, after an accidental shooting on set of The Crow.

Blanks for movie or TV are very different than what one uses on stage. Having been involved with weapon simulation in several productions for stage i.e. Hamlet, West Side Story, The Sound of Music, Henry V and on TV (George Washing) I have experience with both firearms and bladed combat, and one does not use blanks on stage. In addition to the wadding, which can inflict damage should it strike somebody, you have the added danger of fire. True, all of the stuff on stage should be flame retardant, but one does not take chances.

For a cap-n-ball revolver, as stated, caps are sufficient. What you haven't heard about is the amount of smoke that is generated by a black powder charge, or an actual black powder blank. It will obscure the stage, and hang in the air long after the scene is concluded, and you don't want that.

In the enclosed space the illusion of the bang from a good quality cap is fine as it is pretty loud. For a cartridge piece, an empty cartridge with a standard primer...if the director complains then a magnum primer, BUT NOTHING ELSE.

LD
 
Thinking about this, the RWS 1075 plus-strength caps might work well in this role. I dislike them for shooting because of the flash, but that would work perfectly for stage use.
 
I use yellow foam ear plugs as a wad. Ram them in tight in the cylinder and they'll boom as loud as a real round.
 
Some of you older guys may remember the TV show "Wise Guys". The star was bored one day between scenes so he played Russian roulette with a blank pistol. He died on the set and the show needed a replacement for their star.

Just use the caps or primers in an empty case in a conversion cylinder.
Ken Wahl is pretty much still alive. He did get run over by a camera rig on set and broke his neck falling down the stairs at Rodney Dangerfields girlfriends house but he is still alive. You are probably thinking of Jon-Erik Hexum who shot himself with a blank gun on the set of Cover Up.
 
www.westernstageprops.com has a wide assortment of blank types & calibers, including full, half, and quarter charges.

If you want something more than a primer or cap pop, they can provide it, along with instruction & advice on using such blanks indoors.

Can also provide several blank-firing-only replica guns in .380 & .22 BLANK calibers.

35 years ago, I worked security for a live theater while going to school.
The local opera company was putting on a production of Carmen, in which one character shot a rifle at another character.

This was on an elaborate set, characters were on opposite sides of the stage, the shootee was about ten feet above the shooter.
Original plans were to have the shooter aim his prop rifle while the stage manager fired a .30-06 blank through his own rifle off-stage.

When they were first blocking out the acts, I told the stage manager I could do better, if he & the opera director were interested.
They were.
I did.

Had an old Brazilian smoothbore percussion rifle.
Using a plastic teaspoon of old-fashioned photographic magnesium flash powder held in by a wad of magician's flash paper, it produced a very notable blast & spectacular muzzle flash for about ten feet in front of the shooter.

Inside the theater, house lights out, only stage lighting used, when that thing let loose there was no nonsense about off-stage sound effects. :)
Got an audience reaction every performance.

The flash paper was used as a wadding because it burns instantly & completely, with zero particulates.
The magnesium flash powder was fully consumed (tested it previous to ever taking it on stage), small enough amount to be loud, but not too loud, and ejected zero particulates.

The distance between the two characters was safe enough, but the shooter was carefully coached NOT to aim directly at his "opponent".

Today, probably would not fly.
Back then, the opera company owned no props, was glad to get the help, thought the gun's performance was magnificent, and it even passed the fire marshal.

Also supplied two single-shot percussion pistols in non-firing roles for subordinate character props.
And, there was a scene requiring one character to attack another with a knife.
Needed to be big enough to be seen in the back rows. I bought a KaBar, wire-brushed all the finish off to leave the blade bright & reflective, and ground off the cutting edge.
Scene was choreographed to reduce chances of any accidental contact.

As far as indoor blanks go, you do have to be very cautious.
BP & floral foam can still eject particulates.

Years later, built a stock of primer & foam .38 Special blanks for departmental training purposes.
Had to use some sort of wad to create back-pressure to keep the primers from backing out & binding up the revolver cylinders. (If you want to do that right, with just primer & no wad, you enlarge the flash hole a bit, but I didn't want to take the time to drill out 300 cases.)

Found in testing the foam was broken up, but would still spit & if close enough COULD hurt.
Training scenarios had to be carefully staged to prevent anybody getting stung.

Denis
 
Theatrical blanks use special powder that is made to make noise. BP it ain't. BP would fill the theatre with acrid smoke and very likely set off the fire alarms and sprinklers. As funny as we'd find that, theatre goers wouldn't be amused.
Movie/TV blanks are regular military style training blanks or less. Nobody cares if they make a noise or not because all that is added in editing. Movie and TV types think real gun shots don't sound real enough. Not that they have any idea what a gun shot sound like.
 
I have fired in a blackpowder cartridge match with eight or nine particpants, outdoors: on a windless, drizzly rainy day, the BP smoke lay like a fog.

BP blanks fired indoors?

Even just one in a .44 or .45 revolver. I would want a good ventilation system capable of carrying air from the stage outdoors ASAP.

Hang sheets of paper at various distances and testfire blanks. The damage may surprise you.
 
Load up a primer only in an empty casing and shoot it off indoors and you'll be wondering why I didn't recomend you wear ear protection. Even a regular primer is LOUD and those on stage will jump at the noise. A percussion cap isn't as bad and sounds more like a kid's cap gun.
 
Ken Wahl is pretty much still alive. He did get run over by a camera rig on set and broke his neck falling down the stairs at Rodney Dangerfields girlfriends house but he is still alive. You are probably thinking of Jon-Erik Hexum who shot himself with a blank gun on the set of Cover Up.
You're right, I got the name of the series wrong. My memory fell apart after 70.
 
There have been enough cases of actors being injured or injuring themselves with blank cartridges that the old "5-in-1s" and the like are almost gone from movie sets. More and more "films" are shot digital, and it is much safer to have the flash and noise added "in the back room" than to pay the exorbitant insurance premiums that go along with real guns and real cartridges, blank or not.

For the same reason, I strongly advise theater companies and the like to forget about using real guns and blanks. If using a drum beat or a noisemaker won't do, use a blank firing pistol with no hole through the barrel and crimp blanks with no wad. After all, it is a bit much to expect an actor to really "die for his art."

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=76412&d=1208126533

Jim
 
For muskets as long as you use real black powder you need no wad. a cap will poof it just fine and like others said indoors a cap would be more then enough. For my 58 remington and coach gun I ram a bit of toilet paper over the powder to keep it in place.


As a reenactor we either elevate over targets head or off to the side. When I first started I was shot at close range with a revolver and got hit by the unbrunt powder. Lucky for me I didn't get hit in the eyes but it wasn't a pleasant experience. I've seen pictures of pretty nasty powder wounds too.
 
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