Black Powder Cartridge Loading

[BigBlue 94]

Im wanting to get into some black powder loadings for a few of my cartridge guns. Namely a Blackhawk in 45 Colt, and an 1890 Winchester '73 and an 1897 Colt New Navy, both in 32-20. Maybe some 38 special. Maybe even some 16ga and .410 brass shot shells if I can find some in the future.

I recently purchased 4 pounds of FFg and 4 lbs of FFFg, all Goex brand. Plenty of all basic types of CCI primers. I have a bunch of Meister's lead bullets for the 32-20 and have molds for 45 and 38 (special) bullets. Have some SPG lube too.

I like to have physical copies of load data and knowledge. So would these be good books to buy?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012862080?pid=121867

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019722831?pid=582439

Im not an avid reloader, but have plenty of equipment and supplies. I started reloading with my grandpa when i was about 12 years old, around the year 2000. Ive done bottle neck rifle and many different pistol calibers. Even shot shells. So its not like im new to reloading, but its not something I have spent a ton of time doing.

Any tips and tricks for BP reloading would also be appreciated.

 

[Jimster]

Fill the cases as full as you can (along with room for the seated bullet of course) with black powder. SPG is a good lube. Make sure your powder funnels and measures are spark proof. Check your OAL and do some plunk testing to make sure your dies are dialed in just right.
I reload 45-70, .45 colt and 44-40 with black powder. Goex is good stuff.

 

[Archie]

What Jimster said.

For shotgun, essentially the same, but seat the wads firmly against the powder charge. Black powder is measured by volume, not weight like smokeless powder. You might check with a muzzle loading black powder shotgun source about 'starting loads'.

I find having too many books or too much information rather hard to accomplish. Sam Fadala is a long time muzzle loading source of information. The other book looks good as well. Some information may be repetitive, but that's good.

 

[whughett]

I hand load several calibers in smokeless but only 45C in black powder. Depending on my mood or what sort of noise I want to make at the range I’ll fill a 45C case brimful of 3F Goex, now the Graf and Son switched their house brand, seat a 250 grain RNFP and roll crimp. The press compresses the powder into an almost solid pill.
You can use any amount the case will hold just observe the no air space rule. For reduced loads use fillers or wad or a combination of such.

 

[Chuck R.]

Between your two choices I'd go with the SPG book as it's geared towards black powder cartridges.

If you PM me with an Email address I will send you an article on black powder cartridge loading that I wrote and was published years ago in Single Shot Exchange magazine. They thought it was good enough to publish so I guess it's "ok". It contains a bunch of favorite loads from the guys I used to shoot Quigley and BPCS with.

 

[splattergun]

Ask about this in the black powder forum here. Lots of BP knowledge there, whether front-stuffing or cartridge loading.

 

[BigBlue 94]

Between your two choices I'd go with the SPG book as it's geared towards black powder cartridges.

If you PM me with an Email address I will send you an article on black powder cartridge loading that I wrote and was published years ago in Single Shot Exchange magazine. They thought it was good enough to publish so I guess it's "ok". It contains a bunch of favorite loads from the guys I used to shoot Quigley and BPCS with.

I bought both. PM inbound

 

[FLIGHT762]

Read up and understand loading black powder especially about the issues of static electricity and you reloading tools.

 

[.308 Norma]

Any tips and tricks for BP reloading would also be appreciated.

Though I've thought about loading some blackpowder 45 Colt ammo (just for the fun and smoke) the only black powder cartridge I currently load is my .45-110 (2 7/8 inch case) Sharps. I drop the powder through a 24" brass tube, which compresses it slightly, then when I seat the bullet and fiber wad, it gets compressed about another 1/8".
I know black powder charges are measure by volume and not by weight, but I've found out that once I've figured how much (by volume) a specific granulation (I mostly use black cartridge rifle powder) of powder it takes to fill a case to the desired level, I can dump the case full of powder onto my scale and weigh it. That way I know how much (by weight) of that granulation of black powder it takes to fill the rest of the cases to the desired level. I think charging cases goes faster that way.

 

[Mark_Mark]

45-120 black powder! ooooh yeah

 

[DocRock]

If you can find any Magtech Brass, BP shot shell loading is easy. 16 and 410 may even be available. Best is to go to Ballistoc Products website and they list the components - over powder wad, fiber cushion wad, and over shot card - in the sizes needed for the thinwall Magteck brass. They also sell an adjustable brass measure for powder and shot, and a little booklet on black powder loads for shot shells that takes any guesswork out of it.

I load 20 ga Magtech brass with BP for CAS. With the shortages, I may be loading them for Sporting Clays soon!

 

[MEHavey]

Black powder is measured by volume, not weight

Black powder is always measured by weight.

However once you're determined the desired weight that fills the case
(vibrated down) to the bullet base (+ a slosh more), the resultant volume
is a convenient approximation for measuring from that point on.

 

[BigBlue 94]

If you can find any Magtech Brass, BP shot shell loading is easy. 16 and 410 may even be available. Best is to go to Ballistoc Products website

Magtech is the only maker ive found. Checked that website, out of stock on all of em. Midway is my go-to because i get everything next day do to them being just a few hours away. But they have been out for months.

 

[Jim Watson]

Black powder is measured by volume, not weight like smokeless powder.

Kind of an Internet Mantra which is part right and part wrong.
Powder charges are specified by weight, what do you think the -70 in .45-70 means, or 3 drams on a shotgun shell? But for convenience and mass production, powder is delivered by volume in a measure calibrated to the desired weight.
Until you get into target shooting, when most of us follow the 1870s advice of the Sharps Rifle Co.: "For fine shooting, powder should be weighed on a scale."

You will be recommended the "square load" for a shotgun, equal volumes of powder and shot.
This usually gives a good pattern although velocity will be rather low. So you might have to lead them a bit more.

 

[BigBlue 94]

Kind of an Internet Mantra which is part right and part wrong.
Powder charges are specified by weight, what do you think the -70 in .45-70 means, or 3 drams on a shotgun shell? But for convenience and mass production, powder is delivered by volume in a measure calibrated to the desired weight.

Sounds a lot like loading shot shells with a MEC with a charge bar.

 

[Jim Watson]

When I was shooting ATA Trap, there were reloaders who did not own a scale, all they knew was "number 32 bushing." It got to the point that they would sometimes bring in a shell with a cork in it for somebody to weigh for them.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

I load black powder cartridges for cowboy action shooting, mostly .38 Special (which makes a pretty good black powder cartridge) and .44-40 (a superb BP rifle cartridge).

I had a conversation last weekend about loading shotshells. I use Winchester AA or Remington STS hulls and regular plastic wads. I get a little skin of melted plastic in my bores but I pour a kettle of very hot water through them, let them cool, push a piece of paper towel through each bore, then a coat of Ballistol. Easy.

 

[troy fairweather]

I like loading bp, even for guns that it's not needed. I like old sxs shotguns and really like loading a shooting them. The magtech cases have been out for almost a year now. I need some 12ga for a old hammered sxs I got.

 

[BigBlue 94]

I like loading bp, even for guns that it's not needed. I like old sxs shotguns and really like loading a shooting them. The magtech cases have been out for almost a year now. I need some 12ga for a old hammered sxs I got.

I have the means to make brass shot shell hulls. But not the talent! Nor the money. Turning brass that thin on a lathe is no easy task!

When i originally started looking for the brass 410 shells, about the time covid hit, all that midway had were 20 and 16ga. Wasnt thinking about my old '97 16ga and by the time i did, they were gone!

Im sure ill load 38spl, 44spl, and 45C with BP.
But also 32-20 and 38-40. Maybe even 500SW. Dont have any of the 45-70 type calibers. Yet!

----------------
What im after in the end is the smokey dull thump from some 45C. And easy shooting for my 32-20s from 1890 and 1897. I have plenty of smokeless powder, so im not trying to "make due".

 

[Archie]

Kind of an Internet Mantra which is part right and part wrong.
Powder charges are specified by weight, what do you think the -70 in .45-70 means, or 3 drams on a shotgun shell? But for convenience and mass production, powder is delivered by volume in a measure calibrated to the desired weight.
Until you get into target shooting, when most of us follow the 1870s advice of the Sharps Rifle Co.: "For fine shooting, powder should be weighed on a scale."

You will be recommended the "square load" for a shotgun, equal volumes of powder and shot.
This usually gives a good pattern although velocity will be rather low. So you might have to lead them a bit more.

That is right, but not the whole story. The initial load was first developed, then weighed. Metallic cartridges do not burn black powder properly - including pressure excursions when loose in a case. Loading shotgun shells is a bit different as the wad and shot is pressed down on the charge.
One notes loading 70 grains of black powder in a .45-70 cartridge results in the charge being lightly compressed. The designers may have desired such a load, but it wasn't developed like smokeless powder. Same with the BP .45 Colt and etc loadings.

 

[DocRock]

That is right, but not the whole story. The initial load was first developed, then weighed. Metallic cartridges do not burn black powder properly - including pressure excursions when loose in a case. Loading shotgun shells is a bit different as the wad and shot is pressed down on the charge.
One notes loading 70 grains of black powder in a .45-70 cartridge results in the charge being lightly compressed. The designers may have desired such a load, but it wasn't developed like smokeless powder. Same with the BP .45 Colt and etc loadings.

70 grs of BP, even 3 ffg, with any 400 grs plus bullet in a modern case requires CONSIDERABLE compression, as in 1/4" or more; certainly beyond what is normally deemed appropriate compression. Frequently, BP loads in 45-70 are 65 grains or less.

 

[troy fairweather]

70 grs of BP, even 3 ffg, with any 400 grs plus bullet in a modern case requires CONSIDERABLE compression, as in 1/4" or more; certainly beyond what is normally deemed appropriate compression. Frequently, BP loads in 45-70 are 65 grains or less.

Ya you get the 70 in the old balloon head brass easier. The very early 45-70 were foil cases and should have had even more room.

 

[Jim Watson]

Amazing how those loads came out even numbers every time.

The Goex rep's rule of thumb was to dump the case level full and weigh. Set scale or measure to that.
Use drop tube, vibrator, and/or compression to make room for the bullet.

I used Swiss which was best with less compression than Goex, I only compressed the thickness of the over powder wad.

The real .45-70 Gov't, especially the later .45-70-500 load was heavily compressed. The spec was for a "long burn" primer to break and ignite the caked powder.
Early modern BPCR used a lot of Magnum primers.
The trend now is to standard and even pistol primers for an easier start.

 

[jmorris]

Kind of an Internet Mantra which is part right and part wrong.
Powder charges are specified by weight, what do you think the -70 in .45-70 means, or 3 drams on a shotgun shell? But for convenience and mass production, powder is delivered by volume in a measure calibrated to the desired weight.

It’s really only a problem once we introduce BP substitutes. Goex for example is pretty close as far as grains volume to actual weight. Using substitutes is where you can get into trouble weighing charges vs volume grains. Throw a weighted charge of Pyrodex and your 70 grain weighed charge is actually over 90 grains volume.

 

[Jim Watson]

You mean, like following instructions? What a novel idea.

I cannot find a definition of "grains volume," besides marks on a measure, like the Culver Clicks used in benchrest or the bushing numbers heard at a shotgun club.