Black Talons
- Thread starter CZ 42
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If I remember correctly they took it off the market.
Found a wiki page about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon,_ammunition
Found a wiki page about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon,_ammunition
HisSoldier
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Ranger, RangerT. It's a black talon that isn't black, and the media doesn't know about it yet. Read about it in a gun mag. Supposedly Winchester doesn't intend for us "civilians" to have it, but I bought a box of 45 ACP anyway.
1911RjB
Member
Actually, the were discontinued by Winchester. Simply because they were used in a "few" high profile murders and Winchester wanted to keep there image good. Also song gun haters were calling it supper ammo, and crazy stuff like that..
Ranger is made by one of the members of the team that made the Black Talons. I don't really think you can find Black Talons any more, and I'm pretty sure if you could they would cost a little bit simply for the fact that there not made anymore.
It doesn't say that they don't intend for "civilians" to have it, it simply stated that there is no law that makes it illegal for "civilians" to have it, and if you wanted some you can buy it and there is nothing anyone could do about it.
Ranger is made by one of the members of the team that made the Black Talons. I don't really think you can find Black Talons any more, and I'm pretty sure if you could they would cost a little bit simply for the fact that there not made anymore.
It doesn't say that they don't intend for "civilians" to have it, it simply stated that there is no law that makes it illegal for "civilians" to have it, and if you wanted some you can buy it and there is nothing anyone could do about it.
There is nothing special about Black Talon's "stopping power," and no reason to pay a cartridge-collector's price for the stuff. buy yourself some good fresh Gold Dot and be done with it. If a guy just has to have food-processor-tipped bullets, well, look into Golden Saber.
1BLINDREF
Member
If you are looking for .45 acp there is someone selling a bunch over on the Sig Forum.
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=350601935&m=1701045801
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=350601935&m=1701045801
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
Not For Sale
I've still got three boxes of Winchester Black Talons in 9m'm Luger that my
old agency issued me after my last qualification~!
I've still got three boxes of Winchester Black Talons in 9m'm Luger that my
old agency issued me after my last qualification~!
RecoilRob
Member
Years ago, I read an autopsy report about one of the 'high profile' killings done with the Talons. Of the 7 or 8 people killed and wounded with them, 50+ shots, only ONE bullet nicked an artery with an expanded 'claw' that might have been missed with some other bullet.
In fact, they concluded that ball ammo would have killed them all just as dead, as the shots were in and through major body equipment. As always, WHERE you hit is much more important than with what.
In fact, they concluded that ball ammo would have killed them all just as dead, as the shots were in and through major body equipment. As always, WHERE you hit is much more important than with what.
Doctors gave their opinions to the press - they were terrified of probing bullet-wounds because the sharp petals were puncturing their surgical gloves and fingers, thereby inviting infection.
"They're called Black Talons because they were designed to shoot black men" was another hyped opinion.
Almost forgot - "The black coating on the bullet is teflon, so it can penetrate cops' body-armor, therefore it's a cop-killer bullet".
"Buzz-saw" was another media description - complete rubbish, but the weight of opinion was against Winchester, so they reluctantly yet voluntarily pulled the product.
"They're called Black Talons because they were designed to shoot black men" was another hyped opinion.
Almost forgot - "The black coating on the bullet is teflon, so it can penetrate cops' body-armor, therefore it's a cop-killer bullet".
"Buzz-saw" was another media description - complete rubbish, but the weight of opinion was against Winchester, so they reluctantly yet voluntarily pulled the product.
DougW
Member
I still have a box of the 147gr 9mm and a box of 180gr .357 Magnum. I know I paid $22 for the .357 Mag ammo new.
Black Talons were attacked by the media and so deamonized that Winchester pulled them from the market and changed them to the Ranger, under the guise of being LEO ammo. After the hysteria settled down, Ranger ammo went back on sale to the public. It is in the same light that LA police insisted on changing to the .45 after the W Hollywood shootout, saying that the .45 would have defeated the 2 bad guys where the 9mm didn't.
Nothing changes perception. Too many people think perception is reality, thus the demise of the Black Talon.
Black Talons were attacked by the media and so deamonized that Winchester pulled them from the market and changed them to the Ranger, under the guise of being LEO ammo. After the hysteria settled down, Ranger ammo went back on sale to the public. It is in the same light that LA police insisted on changing to the .45 after the W Hollywood shootout, saying that the .45 would have defeated the 2 bad guys where the 9mm didn't.
Nothing changes perception. Too many people think perception is reality, thus the demise of the Black Talon.
The Drew
Member
A local gunshop still has some in 10mm I bet those will really do some damage....
Deer Hunter
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They're not any better than other high-quality hollowpoints on the market today.
Ethereal
Member
Black Talons are outdated and obsolete compared to today's HP ammo choices. Just because they have a "cool name" and sound badass cause Winchester pulled them years ago doesn't mean that they are any better than the current available Ranger SXT, Federal HST, Hornady TAP (which is teflon coated also btw), or Remington's Golden Saber. Save your money and time and don't bother with the Black Talons.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
They weren't that great when they were still made.
.45 ACP Black Talon often wouldn't even open up, and the other calibers were no more deadly then anything else at that time.
There are a bunch of better bullet designs now.
Gold-Dot, DPX, TAP, and several others come to mind.
rcmodel
.45 ACP Black Talon often wouldn't even open up, and the other calibers were no more deadly then anything else at that time.
There are a bunch of better bullet designs now.
Gold-Dot, DPX, TAP, and several others come to mind.
rcmodel
mondocomputerman
Member
The black talons were standard velocity, whereas the ranger T's I have are +p+. Quite a bit of defference in velocity.
Yep, silly anti-gun propaganda, how doctors said they were afraid to probe bullet wounds caused by Black Talons, due to the chance of getting nicked. I have seen pieces of quite jagged bullet jacket that had blown out the side of a bad guy, laying in a parking lot. The ammo was Federal Classic .357 mag 125-grain JHP. Most of the fragments were still inside him, with the main body of the bullet. (The only probing that happened with this guy was at the morgue.) Any bullet that fragments or expands is likely to have sharp, jagged edges, period.
Autolycus
Member
It is not worth the premuim price asked for by collectors. Though they do look cool with the black bullet, it is not worth paying nearly double the value in many cases for an old bullet.
We carry Ranger 147gr in 9mm at my dept. After testing poop loads of other rounds, we settled on the Ranger. It's a pretty nasty round. I was so impressed with it, that's what I carry in my own weapons. And if memory serves me correctly, Rangers are Talons without the black coating.
possum
Member
getting talons good luck but there are many many fine defensive loads out there. i got a box from a army buddy of mine that was a cop in puerto rico and he no longer needed them, for some reason people were always brging me ammo at work, some jhp's, but mostly fmj, hey that was cool with me.
skinewmexico
Member
Gold dots.
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