Blow Up A Gun... Experience?

[jstein650]

(if this is inappropriate, I'm sure the Mod's will let me know)

I don't doubt this may have been visited before, but... Has anyone here had an actual catastrophic failure while firing a gun? If so, do you know what caused it? I've had a memory floating around my head for some time, and thought there may be some value in sharing it.
Quite a few years back, I had an OLD sxs sidelock 12ga. (Don't worry, it was a cheap Sears & Roebuck that I'd used plenty, and was thoroughly shagged in every way) At any rate, I decided to find out just what it would take to blow a gun up. (ALL THIS TESTING WAS DONE REMOTELY FIRED WITH NO ONE IN THE VICINITY)
I started with a good double charge, actually substituting Bullseye for Green Dot, then doubling that...no big deal. I went to tripling that with a shorter wad.... Big Bang, all OK. I finally went to a shell 1/2 full of powder, card wad, and tight crimp!..
Bigger Bang, still all OK! In desperation I tried a shell 3/4 full of FLASH powder (M-80, cherrybomb) - Much faster than any smokeless powder... BIG BANG, and instant rust, but still all held together. In a final attempt to wreck this thing, I loaded a ridiculous charge of B-eye, then stuffed the barrel tight with rags! THIS didn't blow the thing up! At this point though, the action was totally sprung, and the soldered rib popped off the barrel. I gave up.
The point is, most guns seem to be hell-for-strong. I know that rifle pressures are another thing entirely. Just wanted to see if any of you have had failures, especially under 'normal' conditions?

 

[Comrade Mike]

My dad witnessed one when he was a range instructor for the government.

Back when they were still qualifying and carrying revolvers he had a new agent on the line who dropped the hammer on a round that didn't go bang just a pfffft. What had happened was a squib round with just enough umph behind it to lodge a bullet deep enough into the forcing cone to allow the cylinder to turn. The new agent thought nothing of it and pulled the trigger again as my father reached for the gun. The back strap blew off and cut my dad across the cheek, the cylinder became a grenade and the barrel went down range. The new agent was uninjured except for a wet pair of shorts. He was standing there shaking holding what was left of the grip in his hand.

One more, a good buddy of mine is a gunsmith and I do some work for him occasionally. Well one day a guy comes in with a Glock in a bag full of pieces. Guy had a round KB in the chamber, blew the extractor out, bent the extractor cut out in the slide, blew the internals out. Well he seated a 9mm too deep in his reloading press and destroyed the gun. My buddy bought it for 80 bucks and got it back in working order. It's been working fine to this day

Neither of these would be considered "normal conditions" but it stresses that you have to always be diligent

 

[jstein650]

Now I can see that. But then again, I wish I still had the picture, but a friend of mine with a permit for full auto showed me a 9mm barrel sectioned in half that had a slug get stuck in the barrel on full auto - there were about 15 smashed slugs crammed into that thing, and nothing blew! Obviously, the metal integrity has a lot to do with it as well.

 

[230RN]

Unless the barrel is obstructed, most of the time the overpressure damage occurs from a release of gas from a ruptured cartridge base. Most older arms have a bit of "overhang" at the base, where the pressure is only contained by mere brass. Some older guns (such as the M1 Garand) have been specifically designed to support the entire head of the cartridge, and as Hatcher says, the M1 Garand is probably the strongest action ever built (up to the time of his writing, the late 1940s.) You will note that most centerfire riflles have a small hole drilled into the breech end of the barrel/receiver to relieve pressure from this cause in a "safe" direction, that is, off to the side.

I did have an M1 Carbine (not the rifle) let go because of my own reloading error. This was due to my failing to seat the bullets securely in the case.

Therefore, the bullet got rammed deeply in the case during feeding and the overpressure ruptured the base and let gas into the action. The magazine was extremely bulged and bits of brass jammed up the half-opened bolt. There were other damages here and there and I sent the whole gun back to the manufacturer (Universal) and they refurbished everything (except the magazine) for me. They also put a new barrel on it by my request, since I did not have any way to tell if the barrel/chamber had been damaged. I was not injured.

I only later discovered the cause of the problem when (after getting the gun back), I cycled some of my remaining reloads through the action without firing them and discovered the bullet setback in the ejected cartridges.

You might consider doing some research on "The strength of military actions" as well as other references to guns breaking in Hatcher's Notebook. That book also has an entire section on Record of Accidents with the then-service rifle, the 1903 Springfield. This chapter is very enlightening, if boring, as to the causes and results of the guns "blowing up."

Terry, 230RN

ETA WRT bullets stuck in bores, etc. per jstein650's post 3: Hatcher covers a lot of this, including reporting of an M1917 revolver not blowing up with a number of bullets stuck in its barrel. He opines that the cylinder gap releases enough pressure to avoid blowing up the gun. On the other hand, he cites a case where an M1917 revolver's barrel split along the line where "Property of the United States" was stamped.

 

[jstein650]

Thanks, 230RN. I will have to check that out. I've seen many references to it, but have been too busy/lazy to actually find a copy.
P.S., I referred to to a more than healthy double charge I had in my K-38, shooting 158 cast and Bullseye in another thread. On that occasion, my 38 felt like a true .357! I knew something was way wrong. I took me a while to knock the brass free enough to remove, and that damn 'thin' spot at the cylinder stop cutout had 'dimpled' I kept shooting her for many years still, for better or worse, just was a stiffer eject from that hole.

 

[swalton1943]

I had a Jennings .22lr explosively dismantle in my hand; piece of metal nicked my cheek and another put a ding in the center of my right glasses lens. Pulled a piece of shell casing out of my hand. Glad for polycarbonate glasses.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Has anyone here had an actual catastrophic failure while firing a gun?

A few weeks ago a new (45 ACP) Glock 36 blew up on me on the 100th round.
Injured my hand a little. Destroyed the gun.

Since then I've heard of a number of G36 failures.
Just a few days ago I talked to a man who's G36 blew at the 300 round count.

The feed ramp is cut way too far into the bottom of the chamber, to the point the 45 case wall can be unsupported, depending on the case.

First thing I did was check my G19, G26 and G33 to see if had they this poor design. Their feed ramp/chamber is better designed.

Don't bother asking for more details. I'll post about it some time later when I finish researching.

In the mean time, if you have a G36 you might do some research on them blowing up.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Oh yes, another recent gun buy, the "USAF Model ZIP Gun".......


.....is one you might want to stay away from.


I am bad for buying the unusual. (Just bought a Kel Tec KSG shotgun )
So, I thought I'd try out the ZIP Gun.....mistake.


The ZIp gun doesn't blow up but it does fire out of battery, with interesting results.

 

[Bruno2]

I saw a guy get whacked in the head with a short SxS with too hot of reloads in it. Right on the corner of the forehead where you could see back into his skull. It tore his hand up pretty good too where it ripped itself from his grip.

I have seen 2 people shoot themselves trying to catch a dropped gun. One guy shot himself in the side with a Browning 22 pistol. It went right through the front and out the back. Luckily it didn't hit anything important and he was fine. The other guy dropped a shotty and lost the end of one of his toes. That one could have been a lot worse too, but fortunately it wasn't.

I totally understand that it is a natural reaction to try to catch things that are falling. Even more so when its something expensive, but if you drop a loaded gun off safety the best thing you could do is resist the urge with every fiber in your body.

 

[OneWound]

Ive seen a K-80 blow up. Apperently it was a case of bad factory ammo & bad receiver. There was no obstruction of the barrel, but it seemed the explosion of the gunpowder went to the right of the receievetinstead of going out the barrel

 

[jstein650]

OneWound: Now that's pretty crazy. Had to be a serious steel problem in addition to any overcharge, IMO, given I couldn't blow up a 60 something year old shotgun at all.

 

[Thermactor]

Never had it happen, pray that it never happens - I stick away from poorly-built platforms and try to keep it running smooth. Safety is everything when it comes to this stuff and a careless decision can result in permanent injury resulting in disability, which is NOT fun.

 

[Tomcat47]

That ZIP is an interesting firearm...NOT! And that one definitely needs a trip back to manufacture. And WHY?? would I want to mount a .22 on the bottom of my AR style rifle.... I just gotta know WHY anyone would want to do that???? Let alone buy a stamp to keep from committing a felony?

I too had a slide break and fly off a Jennings .22 and a Jennings .380

 

[jr_roosa]

I saw a guy disassemble a brand new custom bolt gun with the first shot, which was a handload.

It took the top rail and scope off and sent it a few feet ahead off the line, shattered the stock, and took the ends off the guys fingers on his support hand that he had cupped under the magazine plate since he was shooting off a rest. It threw a little bit of shrapnel into his forehead too.

No idea what went wrong, but could have been one of many things. Surprisingly poor gas management, but maybe he was just unlucky to have his fingers up along the side of the action rather than on further forward or back under the buttstock.

I gotta say, I gave my own handloads a very suspicious look after we patched that guy up and sent him to the ED.

-J.

 

[OneWound]

OneWound: Now that's pretty crazy. Had to be a serious steel problem in addition to any overcharge, IMO, given I couldn't blow up a 60 something year old shotgun at all.

From what I'm told it was the way a cut was made on the right hand side of the receiver

 

[jstein650]

Enlightening stuff so far guys, thanks. Unfortunately it seems to be usually the 'other' guys gun, making the cause rather a matter of speculation.
Trying to narrow down the common causes: *Cartridge bursts are not all that uncommon, and can cause quite a mess, although not a barrel burst sort of situation. *Some really low-end (Jennings) platforms are worth about what they cost. *Occasionally a firearm will get out that is simply a very faulty design (that K-80?) Still waiting to find out if the Glock failures were barrel bursts, or cartridge blow-outs. Even a pretty high pressure round like the .30 carbine (above post) with a bullet jammed deep will cause the brass to fail before the gun - and jammed bullets in autoloaders does seem a common problem leading to blown brass.
Thanks for the posts; more welcome!
edit: jr_roosa; that one sounds really bad! Did the breech actually burst? 'Custom gun and handload' opens up a bunch of possibilities, but still, if a blown barrel, wow!
Of course other really bad things can cause what I'd call a catastrophic failure - bolt lug shear, any number of metal parts splitting, cracking, twisting, etc. I guess I'm referring to permanent damage to the bolt, barrel, locking mechanism of a firearm.

 

[OneWound]

That K-80 is not a faulty design..basically mistakes were made during manufacturing (if it was a faulty design it wouldn't be worth over 10g new)

 

[jstein650]

Good. I thought those were some pretty pricey lead slingers!

 

[limpingbear]

I saw my brother split 4 inches out of the end of a 36 inch barrel on a Winchester 37 single shot. He was shooting up some reloads and some of them were not done up right and a wad from a previous shot got stuck in the end of the barrel. The shot that split the barrel also knocked him back about 3 feet and caused the action to self open.
Later our dad just sawed the split portion off the barrel and the gun worked just fine after that.

 

[jstein650]

Now that does happen with some regularity! My dad accidentally jammed a bit of snow in his Mossberg 20ga - classic banana peel! If I had gone that route in my OP experiment, I'm sure that would have happened. There's a funny youtube post with some idiot shooting his shotgun into the water - he pulled the trigger when his muzzle was about an inch or two under and BLAMMO! Same thing...

 

[wyohome]

I saw a Savage 16 Ga single shot bulged and split when we were shooting salmon in a creek. The kid (my cousin) got an ass-whoopin' when he got home.

 

[jr_roosa]

Did the breech actually burst?

Looked like it. It might have just been enough gas to blow the scope off. It was about 4 years ago and I don't have a clear memory of what was blown apart. I remember his fingers pretty well though. Pretty much just sheared off halfway between the knuckle and the tip.

Could have been bore obstruction, wrong bullets/bore caliber, wrong powder, faulty barrel or receiver, bad brass, bad luck, who knows?

-J.

 

[OneWound]

Good. I thought those were some pretty pricey lead slingers!

They are! Anyways guy wasn't hurt, so it's all good right?

 

[Bruno2]

I saw a video of a buddy of mine shooting his 50 cal browning machine gun. I guess a rnd fired out of battery and it blew up. The door on the top broke the hinge and used the locking mechanism as a hinge to hit him square in the head knocking him unconscious.

I watched a goofball put his thumb behind the slide on a 22 colt challenger pistol before he shot it. The slide ripped his thumb open pretty good! The force gave it some good trauma too. He swore up and down he was an experienced shooter . I asked him why he did it and he replied that he had no idea the slide traveled back and forth like that. I asked how he loaded it. He then said "well I know now". Sometimes stupid hurts.

 

[JohnBiltz]

I had a S&W model 66 blow the side of the cylinder out. shooting factory .38s. I had a couple of scratches on my hand about like a house cat would give.