AJC1
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I swore I saw a blue dot load for 30-30 and now I can't find it. The 45th has red and green dot. Any clue. Cast boolits.
Blue Dot 30-30 load
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LAR V
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8 grains with 170 cast is about 1200 fps. Just in my rifle, verify for yourself.
Charlie98
Member
Plugging those numbers into QuickLoad, your data is about square on. The pressure is kind of high... over 30K psi. 17.5grn puts it at max pressure.
I'm not saying I'm gonna run out and try it, however...
These are reduced velocity loads. Not reduced pressure. Blue dot seems to be happiest in this pressure range. Lower gets smoke. Higher gets weird spikes.
If I recall correctly 17.5 was the max that I calculated. But I was just looking for the best accuracy I could get.
I started at 13 and worked up.
15 grains also worked in my Krag and 308 so I figured I would keep it simple and wrote 15 grains with a 150 as my load.
GeoDudeFlorida
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As always with Alliant data, the tested load is the maximum charge. Reduce by 10% for a starting load and work up to your gun’s accuracy load.
Charlie98
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Not arguing the details... that's about where I run my .30 cast at, in both .30-30 and .308. You are correct, too... BlueDot is much like IMR4227 (as an example) ...both like the upper window of pressure to burn well.
Charlie98
Member
John, you get a load you have a question about, email me and I'll crunch the numbers for you.
I didn't take it as trying to argue. I just realized I hadn't given all the information I had. Your quickload info is very helpful.Not arguing the details... that's about where I run my .30 cast at, in both .30-30 and .308. You are correct, too... BlueDot is much like IMR4227 (as an example) ...both like the upper window of pressure to burn well.
4227 is another if my favorite cast powders for rifle.
Charlie98
Member
I use a lot of IMR4227 for .41MAG in a rifle, but I've also experimented with it in the .30's, and even in my .348. Most consistent load I've ever worked up for the .348 was with IMR4227... single-digit SD's, and excellent accuracy.
If you are a push the envelope type of guy. Run screaming.
I like powder that works well at the velocity I'm looking for. In plinking loads I'm looking for 1600 fps. Blue dot does it handily and there are a lot of people who are scared of it. So it's generally available.
Barbaroja
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Because it works!
CoalCrackerAl
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I like 9 grains of B.D behind a 165 grain cast bullet.
OP
OP
AJC1
Member
I have 150s 165 and 173 cast so that's helpful. I finally found a pound for testing so I planned to work up and log a good 357 and 30-30 load.
Pistol powder seemed like the best way to get all the dents and stuff out of these cases that were kinda beat up.
OP
OP
AJC1
Member
You have more manuals than a man can shake a stick at, wonderful!
My current Alliant book has very little cast data and none for bd in 30-30.
Remember the warning about blue dot in 357. Don't load with 125 grain bullets.
I moved away from blue dot in 357 because autocomp got me similar results without the warning. H110 got me the barn burner loads for my heavy bullets.
OP
OP
AJC1
Member
I use cast 156 or 180s so I avoid all the issues with light bullets. I never had that speed bug. Seems like a lot go down that rabbit hole. Cast is heavy and slow.
It did well with 180s. The fireball in low light is still impressive.
Charlie98
Member
You understand why people tend to avoid BlueDot... right? It's one of the very few (if not only, I can't state that as a certainty...) powders that the manufacturer has issued a warning against loading in a specific cartridge (.41MAG) and a specific bullet weight (125grn .357MAG.) That is really, really unusual. I can only guess, given the details of the warning, there is some magical combination of bore size, bullet weight, and resulting pressure curve that BlueDot does not respond well to... I don't want to be that guy that finds the other Magic Combination Alliant doesn't know about just yet.
Having said that, I can see where BlueDot would work really well in your... and the OP's... application. The numbers look right in QL, and I can't see that it's much more different than using Unique or 2400 in that application.
GeoDudeFlorida
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Thanks.
. They come in handy, especially for times like this when someone is looking for tested results. The 1996 Alliant manual has that same load. It’s very low pressure - 29k CUP - but remember also Alliant went through the buyout of Hercules just the year previous and re-ran a lot of Hercules data to verify or replace it so that is more than likely very old information about maximum accuracy, not maximum pressure. Hercules followed the Lyman’s/Ideal method: test a full range but only publish the most accurate results. Oh and by the way, not that it matters but, Blue Dot is primarily a shotgun powder, like Red Dot and Green Dot, not primarily a pistol powder, like Bullseye and Power Pistol. It has some characteristics of each but just keep in mind it is designed to perform best with a heavy load under constant pressure expanding rapidly with minimal resistance.
If you look back to the Hercules time period. The load data for 357 mag with 125s was ridiculously hot. 41 mag wasn't far from it. Alliant bought it and issued that warning after testing the loads with newer equipment.
GeoDudeFlorida
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Correct. Alliant found that Hercules was publishing accuracy loads without giving much thought heat transfer wear or pressure spikes. It has to be acknowledged that 125gr .357 load is a real laser beam out of a 6” revolver.
The researchers at Hercules knew but assumed the handloading public would observe caution and never load at maximum. They also assumed the handloading public would monitor the conditions of their firearms and act accordingly.
It was The SuperVel Effect.
Ah, what fools these mortals be!
I remember a guy during that time period that loaded his 7RM to 7Wby velocity because they were both offered in the same rifle so it could handle the velocity.Correct. Alliant found that Hercules was publishing accuracy loads without giving much thought heat transfer wear or pressure spikes. It has to be acknowledged that 125gr .357 load is a real laser beam out of a 6” revolver.
The researchers at Hercules knew but assumed the handloading public would observe caution and never load at maximum. They also assumed the handloading public would monitor the conditions of their firearms and act accordingly.
It was The SuperVel Effect.
Ah, what fools these mortals be!
No matter how much my Dad and older brother tried to explain it to him. He would not listen. So they didn't shoot with him.
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