Blue Dot 30-30 load

[GooseGestapo]

BlueDot at high pressure loadings becomes “spikey”. It has also undergone reformulation and current iteration is a bit faster burning and cleaner burning.

I’m not familiar with the issues of the .41mag, but I am familiar with the .357mag and 125gr issues.
Several large metro Georgia agencies were using that load in K-frame Smith’s for duty and training.
Duty loads were typically Speer Lawman, but training was with a local company well known for their high quality remanufactured ammunition. They in fact used BlueDot for their 125gr load as it minimized flash and was economical.
Alliant took over from Hercules and slightly changed the powder without telling anyone.
Results were that stuck cases, pierced primers, and busted (cracked forcing cones) started happening.

Alliant published revised data, but this was before the internet and information got out slowly. A LOT of older data proliferated.
A lot of guns got damaged, along with some people.
One agency in Metro sued the ammo producer and Smith&Wesson.
The results were the M686, and the warnings about BlueDot.

I like BlueDot a lot. I first used it in the .30/30 in the late “70’s. It was a better heavy load powder than Unique for cast, and produced equal accuracy at higher velocities at equal pressures, while being cleaner burning than the old #2400, and more economical.

It became a victim of its own popularity!
It’s still a great powder! In a sea of great powders... when they are actually available!

 

[25-20 WCF]

As always with Alliant data, the tested load is the maximum charge. Reduce by 10% for a starting load and work up to your gun’s accuracy load.

It’s important to note that BlueDot has changed over the past 30 years. This has been discussed in numerous forums, and I have personal experience comparing 25-year-old powder to current batches. The newer powder is noticeably “hotter” than older versions, beyond what I’d expect from normal lot-to-lot variations. The same charge weights saw newer lots giving well over 100 fps higher velocities in some calibers. That’s a lot when you are loading towards the upper end.

The data in the Contender load book is from various sources, the authors pressure tested nothing themselves. That same BD cast bullet load is found in my 1990 Hercules manual, where it produced 33,000 CUP pressures. The take away here is to start well below older BlueDot data, more than the usual 10% just to be safe. BlueDot is a great powder for reduced velocity loads, I use a lot of it. But as stated it is not a low pressure powder, so use with caution.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The data in the Contender load book is from various sources, the authors pressure tested nothing themselves. That same BD cast bullet load is found in my 1990 Hercules manual, where it produced 33,000 CUP pressures.

That’s interesting because the 1996 Alliant manual, which quoted Hercules data (Alliant acquired Hercules in 1995), puts the 152gr/13.0gr .30-30 load at 29,000 CUP.

The most popular and common load with “the new Blue Dot” is 15.0-15.5gr with a 173gr FNGC coated bullet or 170gr PFN bullet. That is way over the old Hercules/Alliant data and - in my personal opinion, no “proof” provided - not safe in the average older lever guns. I would recommend starting as low as 10-12% but keep in mind the dangers of starting too low,as well. Remember, when deflagration becomes detonation defenestration may occur.

 

[foxmeadow]

Blue Dot is primarily a shotgun powder,

Lotta duck hunters about.
Blue Dot drives 1-1/2 oz. out of 2-3/4" shells quite nicely; my buddies called them "duck twirlers".
Way, way back in the lead shot days, though...

 

[AJC1]

That’s interesting because the 1996 Alliant manual, which quoted Hercules data (Alliant acquired Hercules in 1995), puts the 152gr/13.0gr .30-30 load at 29,000 CUP.
View attachment 1111545
The most popular and common load with “the new Blue Dot” is 15.0-15.5gr with a 173gr FNGC coated bullet or 170gr PFN bullet. That is way over the old Hercules/Alliant data and - in my personal opinion, no “proof” provided - not safe in the average older lever guns. I would recommend starting as low as 10-12% but keep in mind the dangers of starting too low,as well. Remember, when deflagration becomes detonation defenestration may occur.

Worse yet I don't even know the date of manufactur... it's a single pound from a friend of a friend.... so I'll have to take that into account. Any year of transition known

 

[Charlie98]

I’m not familiar with the issues of the .41mag,

I am... sorta. I've actually loaded BlueDot in the .41MAG... and lived to tell the tale! According to my old records, I loaded 425 rounds of .41 using 12grn BlueDot... back in 1993. I certainly pulled that out of the Speer #11, and adjusted it with data from the Lee manual, which was all I had at the time. The results were not overwhelming, probably because it was not in it's happy pressure zone at 12grn.... much like my first try with IMR4227. I didn't understand a whole lot about powders back then, and I was still on my honeymoon with Unique, so everything else sort of paled in comparison. I know now I didn't have a big enough charge of BlueDot for it to work optimally, hence my poor results with it in the .41, as well as the .38SPC.

I find it odd that Allliant would issue a blanket warning on using BlueDot in the .41, of all cartridges, and not the .44MAG, et al. If it was an issue of hot data, I would think it would have been across the board... to include more cartridges than just the .41, if you see what I mean.

 

[Palladan44]

I am... sorta. I've actually loaded BlueDot in the .41MAG... and lived to tell the tale! According to my old records, I loaded 425 rounds of .41 using 12grn BlueDot... back in 1993. I certainly pulled that out of the Speer #11, and adjusted it with data from the Lee manual, which was all I had at the time. The results were not overwhelming, probably because it was not in it's happy pressure zone at 12grn.... much like my first try with IMR4227. I didn't understand a whole lot about powders back then, and I was still on my honeymoon with Unique, so everything else sort of paled in comparison. I know now I didn't have a big enough charge of BlueDot for it to work optimally, hence my poor results with it in the .41, as well as the .38SPC.

I find it odd that Allliant would issue a blanket warning on using BlueDot in the .41, of all cartridges, and not the .44MAG, et al. If it was an issue of hot data, I would think it would have been across the board... to include more cartridges than just the .41, if you see what I mean.

With enough time, Lawyers will talk them out of making Blue Dot altogether, you watch!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Worse yet I don't even know the date of manufactur... it's a single pound from a friend of a friend.... so I'll have to take that into account. Any year of transition known

I’ve been told both 2003 and 2008 but I haven’t seen anything from Alliant saying they reformulated it and I haven’t seen any difference other than lot-to-lot variation, sometimes fairly big variations but that’s just been part of Blue Dots personality, since it came out 1972. If someone has a flyer from Alliant saying Blue Dot has been reformulated and they could possibly post it I would be interested to read it.

 

[Charlie98]

With enough time, Lawyers will talk them out of making Blue Dot altogether, you watch!

Oh... the politicians might beat them to it... but, come to think of it, most politicians are lawyers.

 

[Slamfire]

My current Alliant book has very little cast data and none for bd in 30-30.

There are reasons for that. Call Alliant and ask. I did, the reload expert said Blue Dot is too pressure sensitive with little changes in components. Little changes bring big changes in pressures. There are enough stories of gun blow ups with "reduced loads" of Blue Dot that I have no desire to gamble.

Use Blue Dot in the cartridges that the powder manufacturer recommends.