Body armor choices

[universal]

I wore one when I was on duty as a police officer and we had a policy that we always wore them on the range for training. I have often thought about getting one to wear at the range now. I would not wear it around in public but it would be nice to have when I am around other with loaded firearms.

I wore a level II and seem to remember that it was rated to protect me from the calibers I would most likely come into contact with. One rule I always agreed with was to get a vest that would not be defeated by your own gun i.e. if you carry a 9mm, make sure your vest is rated for it. When you are armed there is always at least one firearm present during any given encounter, namely your own.

I would suggest getting a new one over a used one. They do not have a very long life (it was five years when I wore them). Like someone else mentioned, you never know how the previous owner may have treated it either.

 

[BullfrogKen]

I agree with all of Jeff's advice.

I wear it to the range for certain events that I feel it necessary to wear it for. That's pretty much the only use it gets. You'll simply have to decide what risk you are trying to mitigate, how much you're willing to spend on it, and what you feel comfortable wearing.

 

[JMusic]

Yep good advise from Jeff as usual. Beyond their primary use they are good for sharp objects jabbed into the torso, and they are good for blunt trauma. I wore one most of the time when riding a motorcycle. I'm not sure about slipping one on for an intruder. The ones I have owned made quite a bit of noise putting them on. Maybe the newer ones are engineered to be more quiet.

Jim

 

[universal]

Beyond their primary use they are good for sharp objects jabbed into the torso

Sorry, but that is just not true. Stab proof vests are a whole other thing and, as far as I know, still very expensive. The "basic" ballistic vest that most cops wear are NOT rated against sharp or pointed objects. A knife and similar objects will go right through one. That is the main reason I carried one of the older style trauma plates in mine, hoping that any misguided individual who might try to stab me would hit the plate rather than the soft part of the vest. We had one officer who was attacked with a knife and the hard trauma plate saved him.

 

[Jenrick]

Universal: You're right a ballistic vest is not going to pass the NIJ stab test. With that said, have you actually tried to stab through a vest with a knife (not an ice pick, like NIJ uses?). The vest will stop it pretty well, you're going to have a nasty bruise or busted rib from the impact however.

Thin pointy objects, like ice picks, nails, non-broad head arrows, etc, will probably penetrate. Broader things like knives, saws, and the occasional fork (domestic disturbance) probably wont.

-Jenrick

 

[JMusic]

Sometimes guys I have to wonder what we are being told by supposed experts. I have been stabbed and cut with a vest on and it did not go through the vest. I have had the same thing said about blunt trauma and how they are no good for that. I seldom will make a comment or opinion that I have not seen or tried personaly. If you are saying they are not recomended for such protection that would be a true statement but tell me, would you rather be stabbed with a vest on or without one?

Jim

 

[Jeff White]

Stating that soft body armor isn't proof against stabbing attacks is the lawyers talking. No it's not rated to stop a stabbing. But as JMusic says, it's some additional protection. I have personal experience in it's effectiveness against blunt trauma. Took a pretty good kick in the chest from an EDP we were trying to help the ER staff secure one night. The nurse who saw me take the kick was pretty concerned, but there was very little bruising because my vest absorbed most of the blow and spread it over a much bigger area.

Jeff

 

[universal]

I agree with the blunt trauma and I have personally experienced it. I am a firm believer that the vest minimized much of the impact. I have never been stabbed with or without a vest on, I am simply going by my training and the product information I was given with my vest. Of course I would rather be stabbed with a vest on than without. Anything that might help. I guess I have a habit of trusting companies that made products. When the maker of my vest said that it would not protect me against stabbings and such, I took their word for it.

 

[JMusic]

Universal I'm not advocating using anything beyond the manufacturers specs. Just stating what my experiences have been. At one time (I'm an old timer) Second Chance was keeping track of officers saved by their vest. Though they were not rated for some of the attacks the officers encountered they did report them. Sharp instrument and blunt trauma was also included in their assessment. I can remember in the mid 70's their estimate was more lives were saved from officers chests hitting the steering wheels than actual gun attacks. One disclaimer also. If any damage is incurred to the vest time for a new one. Aggravating when you have to purchase your own and someone slices you in a bar while your trying to break something up.

Jim

 

[thexrayboy]

If you want a vest get one. It's just that simple. Do the research and get the most for your money of course but don't let somebody else tell you you do or don't need it. I will say that I would not purchase "used", "surplus"
or "police return" vests. The material, while well made, designed and safe does have a life span. Especially if it is worn or exposed to daily use and changes in temp and humidity. If you are going to spend the dollars on it
get the best quality new vest you can afford. Jeff White is quite correct in
his statement that a finite amount of money is best spent on training and practice. However if like me you can afford it with no undue financial burden and choose to do so than go ahead and buy a vest if you like. I did. I am well aware that my odds of actually needing it are vanishingly small, but so are the odds that I will actually have a need to employ the Kimber or Glock I routinely carry. It's free country, if you can afford it and want it enjoy it. That goes for boats, TVs and ballistic vests.

 

[universal]

Universal I'm not advocating using anything beyond the manufacturers specs. Just stating what my experiences have been.

Jim, no worries. I did not think that at all. Sorry if my reply came off that way. One of my LTs had one of those Second Chance trophies in his office. He survived getting shot directly in the chest with 00 Buck Shot.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Armor at a range is a good idea.

+1. I was "hit" by a ricochet (from someone else) at a public range years
back. Impacted a coat hard enough to give me a good welt underneath.
Just seems to be good insurance. I remember around the same time period
that police in IL had two range accidents in which officers were injured. I
can't remember if any were wearing BA at the time.

 

[Srigs]

I have body armor for a couple of reasons.

1. At a public range and the piss poor gun handling skills some people have
2. Home bump in the night. Slip it on.
3. Ballistic shield in the car in the brief case.

It is better to have it and not need it than need it and not be able to have it IMHO. It is legal for me to own, have and wear.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

if you wear it

keep it a secret
there was a cop 20 years or so back was wearing a vest and there was a big article about how it saved him. fast forward some months same cop bad guy remembered article shot him in the head.
also beware the superman complex. when vests first became commonly available a statistical anomally surfaced. guys with em were getting hit more than those without em. they were relying on the vest to save em taking greater risks.
my father in law was wearing a decent vest as an armored car guy got shot close range after getting clubbed to the ground round hit him in upper shoulder just missed edge of vest. he nearly bled out. vest stopped 2 other rounds though so it did save his bacon

 

[sacp81170a]

I see no problem with buying a vest for HD use. I wear mine at all times on duty and keep it at my bedside at night. I carry a BUG (Taurus Millenium PT-145, light, handy, 10+1 rounds) in an Uncle Mike's Under Armor holster with a couple spare mags.

I HAVE heard the proverbial "bump in the night, grabbed the vest and donned it, picked up the old Mossy 12 gauge and a flashlight and investigated. Made me feel a lot more comfortable, not to mention stylish. The "bump" was a raccoon raiding the garbage that we'd put at curbside for the garbage truck to pick up. Do whatever gives you an advantage.

"If you find yourself in a "fair" fight, your tactics suck." (Clint Smith)

 

[PH/CIB]

Was just at the range yesterday and heard a couple of ricochets go winging out the back of the range, probably off steel knock down targets and the wrong ammo. I have thought about a vest for home defense and a ballistic shield to keep in the bedroom for cover for my wife. Could possilbly through construction techniques build some hard cover for her and myself in the bedroom. Never had a vest in the Army as we carried everything in packs on our backs in Nam it would not have worked for that. I probably someday will buy one (ballistic shields and vests are expensive) just to wear in the summertime to sweat off a few pounds!

 

[silverlance]

i wore a german flak jacket to the range on thursday.

it's hot but not too bad. the problemf or me was that it interfered with my shouldering of long arms.

when i took it off i felt like a new man.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I agree with all of Jeff's advice.

I wear it to the range for certain events that I feel it necessary to wear it for. That's pretty much the only use it gets. You'll simply have to decide what risk you are trying to mitigate, how much you're willing to spend on it, and what you feel comfortable wearing.

Funny thing, the only places I know of where loaded guns have been pointed at me are at gun ranges and in gun classes. The vest helps provide some protection from the stupidity, carelessness, and ignorance of others.

Was just at the range yesterday and heard a couple of ricochets go winging out the back of the range, probably off steel knock down targets and the wrong ammo.

Also funny, splatter tends to hit whatever isn't protected properly. I don't know why. I can wear a vest and still catch splatter in the arm, face, etc. It may hit the vest, but I rarely know it.

 

[Soybomb]

Practicality aside, I strongly recommend you check out the terminal ballistics forum at tacticalforums.com There are some really sharp people posting there like Dr. Roberts and they have some in depth body armor testing. You'll see some neat things like muzzle contact shots blowing holes through armor that was rated to withstand it. Based on what I've read there I wouldn't want to wear anything but a 100% woven aramid piece, like us armor's enforcer classic line. Level 2 should be thinner, lighter and protect you against handgun rounds you'll encounter. You might even be able to hide it under some clothes easier. Of course I don't really want to wear any of it, it all looks fairly uncomfortable and not like something I need so ymmv If I felt like the people at my range were that unsafe I'd find a new range. Far too many tender bits not covered by armor if its a real risk.

 

[nemoaz]

Universal: You're right a ballistic vest is not going to pass the NIJ stab test.

Some do. SC Monarch +P for instance.

The human body can adapt to most anything. If you spend 4 days a week 10+hrs a day in a IIIa vest you get used to it.

Not always. Try wearing one when it is 115-118 degrees.

It's all a trade off. You trade weight, discomfort and heat for protection.

I use a IIIA. The weight difference is inconsequential in my opinion. The reason the thing is uncomfortable is that it is an impermiable membrane covering 20% of my body. If it weighed no more than a trash bag, it would still be difficult to tolerate in extreme heat.

 

[shark40sw]

I own two vests. One Second chance one Safariland both level 2 rated. One goes with me to the range when we shoot tactical and the other sits in my closet next to my Surefire, Glock 22 (night sights, two mags in a push button handgun safe) and Moss 500 locked to the wall with a cable lock. I can pop the thing on, have the handgun out and ready in seconds and the kids can't have access to it. Both vests have trauma plates (the range one much thicker ones) and because I don't wear them every day they could be as thick as a pillow and weigh 10 pounds for all I care. As long as they work.

 

[Jenrick]

Nemoaz: Gonna have to take a look at the Monarch then, would be nice to have that ability.

Been there in the sun, I work in Central Texas so it get's REAL hot in the summer. Nothing like a collision on the freeway over the lake at 3pm during July.

-Jenrick